Toxic Cooking Show
Misogyny, $800 first dates, simps, and high-value women: Social media has been busy cooking up and feeding us an addictive but toxic slurry of trends over the past few years. Here at The Toxic Cooking Show we're two friends dedicated to breaking down these trends, terms, and taunts into their simplest ingredients to understand where they came from and how they affect our lives. Join us each week as we ponder and discuss charged topics like personal responsibility and "not all men" before placing them on our magical Scale O' ToxicityAny comments or topics you want to hear about write to us at toxic@awesomelifeskills.com
Toxic Cooking Show
Debunking Going Back to the 1940s American Dream
Ever wonder why your grandparents could afford a house, two cars, and yearly vacations on a single income while you're drowning in debt with two salaries? The answer lies in a fascinating economic breakdown that demolishes the myth of America's "good old days."
When we crunch the numbers comparing a 1946 household budget to today's financial reality, the results are staggering. While the average household income has increased just 19% since the post-war era (adjusted for inflation), essential expenses have exploded. Auto-related costs have jumped from $1,666 to $12,000 annually. Healthcare has skyrocketed from $2,383 to over $12,297. Most devastating of all: housing has transformed from approximately one year's salary to over five times annual income.
The math is brutally simple: a modern family attempting the traditional single-income model begins each year approximately $23,000 in debt before buying a single piece of clothing or school supply. This mathematical impossibility exposes the hollow core of nostalgia-driven politics that promise a return to an economic model that cannot function in today's reality.
Beyond the economics, we explore the social mythology surrounding the "traditional family." Historical records reveal that many women worked outside the home even in the 1940s and 1950s. The perfectly content housewife in pearls was largely a television creation that bore little resemblance to reality, where undiagnosed PTSD, alcoholism, and domestic abuse were widespread yet unaddressed issues.
Looking at the cold, hard numbers forces a vital question: was America ever actually "great" the way we collectively remember it? And what happens when we try forcing modern families into impossible economic models from an era that never truly existed as portrayed? The answers might surprise you.
Hi and welcome to the Toxic Cooking Show, where we break down toxic people to their simplest ingredients. I'm your host, christopher Patchett LCSW.
Speaker 2:And I'm Lindsay McLean ingredients.
Speaker 1:I'm your host, christopher patchett lcsw and I'm lindsey mclean. Before we go into today's episode, it's been a little while since you and I talked maybe like 12 hours or so since we texted, or or something I actually more yeah, yeah, because it's been about 16.
Speaker 1:Hours so, so I, I, I came with a whole like you know, like, um, I I've changed my ways in the past 16 hours as one does yeah, as one does, and I, I really thought about it and and I decided that that I, I, I think that we need to go back to the 1940s way of living oh, okay so, therefore, you need to get your ass back into the kitchen okay, so you're gonna go back into the coal mines I'm gonna be because you're in west virginia.
Speaker 2:So it's the coal west virginia, it's the coal, it's Virginia, it is the coal mines for you, sir.
Speaker 1:Well, so I'm going to be doing average America employment here.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no, no, I'm in the kitchen.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm hopped up on whatever drugs they give me as the housewife. We're making America great again, america as a whole.
Speaker 2:Right, right, right, not just.
Speaker 1:West Virginia.
Speaker 2:West Virginia, but that's the only part that counts the appalachians, like we don't care about the rest appalachian I'm gonna tell your girlfriend she's gonna beat your ass appalachian.
Speaker 1:so so I I'm taking on the average American job, average American salary. Okay, and your ass is coming back to the kitchen.
Speaker 2:But when, in the 1940s, are we? Because I may have a job, you may be at war and I may have taken your manufacturing job while you were at war.
Speaker 1:We're talking 1946. So this is right after.
Speaker 2:Okay, so you came back from the war and my job. Yeah, I already thought about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my ass is not getting shot at, fuck that.
Speaker 2:Says the military veteran.
Speaker 1:Look, there's a reason why I joined the Navy, okay.
Speaker 2:Fair, fair.
Speaker 1:It is now. Let's first start off. Let's go back to 1945, when America was great. So I came back from war and now women are going back into the kitchen. I came back from war and now women are going back into the kitchen, and so so I'm going to start off with the prices of 1946. And then, after I kind of read through this, I'll, I'll give you the inflated, inflated prices, so you know. So, looking at the average income, it was $3,115.
Speaker 2:Is that per year?
Speaker 1:Per year. Okay, the average per, or the average household. So this is a household of four people man, woman and two kids. I didn't find what it would be for the 2.3. I just found for two kids, we excuse you. So the average house would spend 863 dollars on food, heating, lights, electricity, 421 dollars a year on cars so that's saving for a new car fuel, any car repairs it was $92 a year. Medical, so this is medical insurance plus paying for any medical expenses. It's $133 per year, giving you a total of $1,509 a year.
Speaker 1:Housing $509 a year Housing. Well, I'll, I'll, I'll, you're. You're jumping ahead a little bit here because I have a little, a little, a little treat for for house itself.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. Yes, I get a big kitchen to work in.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes, yes. I mean obviously we, you know, as the man being the provider, you know, I, I have to provider, I have to provide the best of the best here.
Speaker 2:I want a good kitchen to make sandwiches in.
Speaker 1:Inflation. So income is $55,820. Food is $15,465. Utilities is $7,554. Auto is $1,666. And medical is $2,383.
Speaker 2:I was about to say ain't, no fucking way. There's like a hundred in American medical, unless it's hundreds of thousands.
Speaker 1:You got to remember that 1940s you still had the house doctor. This was before medicines became very, became more of an industry. It was basically like you took the doctor's words. You didn't. You didn't have fucking Zoloft having ads on TV and you know the person telling.
Speaker 2:No, you just gave the baby like a little bit of bourbon to knock them out, so they'd sleep while they were sick yeah, exactly cocaine for a nosebleed like.
Speaker 1:Those were the good times let's you know, since we were making making America great again. Let's look at today's prices here. So, like I said, I believe that the woman needs to go back to the kitchen. I'm going to work, I'm going to be the provider and I am going to do everything with the money that I'm making Money that I'm making. So my income has gone from, or is now, $66,622. Food is $1,000. I'm sorry, food is now $19,236 for family and for utilities is $6,99 five dollars. So you know what is actually looking doable. I mean my. My income, adjusted for inflation, in 1946 was 55 820 and now is 66 66,622. Food in 1945, inflated, would have been 15,465. It's a little bit more at 19,236. Heat electricity utilities would have been inflated 7,554. Would have been inflated $7,554. And now it's actually gone down to $6,996. So that's even including online. So you know we now have all of our housing expenses covered and it's looking like it's getting better.
Speaker 2:Our housing expenses.
Speaker 1:Well, for food and and electricity we were. We're not touching house itself yet.
Speaker 2:Okay, I was about to say I know where this is going.
Speaker 1:So you know, the thing was is that as I was doing this, this research, I was like, oh shit, like you know, like I'm actually might be kind of throwing myself under the bus here because I mean, food and heat didn't go up that much. Housing I knew had gone up a lot, but that was one of the last things I looked at. But this is where really kind of going off is auto. So from 1945, inflated prices would have been $1,666.
Speaker 2:It is now $12,000. Wow, I'm so glad I don't own a car in America.
Speaker 1:So this is.
Speaker 2:I mean part of that makes sense, that they're like you have to have a car now, whereas before, like in 46, I think, there were plenty of people who didn't have a car, a lot of people who didn't have a car so you could get around better without it theoretically, whereas now, like, if you don't have one, unless you live in a major city like new york, you're fucked yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And and I mean also, you gotta figure on top of that, like your, your cars were very, very, very basic at the time. So I mean, yeah, you know we have, yes, you know we, we have. It's a longer lifespan and everything like that. However, repairs are, you know, like that much higher repairs are crazy expensive.
Speaker 2:So much stuff like breaks within the car, like not the actual, like oh it's a flat tire, but like the software I guess. Yeah, I don't know, that's not my field of experience.
Speaker 1:I mean you think about like how complex it is nowadays, and especially like I just took my car in for Susan. Susan, I just took her in for auto repair and yeah, it was 12, $1,200 just for a clutch damn suzy, oh, how could you do this? Uh, but yeah, you know. So that's twelve thousand dollars. That's saving up for a new car, that's fuel, that's auto repairs and everything like that.
Speaker 2:Your your car notes medical oh god, so car note Medical, oh God.
Speaker 1:Nope. So with medical in 1946, adjusted was $2,383. Medical now is $12,297. Wow, Wow yeah.
Speaker 2:That's. I'm not surprised, I'm really not surprised. I mean I told you that I just the other day ended up at the doctor's and then had to go get a prescription and Lee was like, oh, you have social security. And I was like, no, there's, you know, got to fill out this thing and that thing. And she was kind of hesitating and I knew what the issue was because I knew what one of the medications was. And in France they like dude, they're like, oh, this one's really expensive, it's 40 euros. And to them they were like, oh my God, and I was like, no, babe, I'm from the U? S. And she was like, oh, oh, so this is not, this is not a problem for you.
Speaker 2:And I was like no, no, I'm not the, the price doesn't scare me, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I mean, I know, like a friend of mine, this is when I was working for the state Pennsylvania and she was getting, I think it was like $385 for taking out for medical and this is really good medical, you know, considering the fact that I was, you know, a state employee. So that was for her husband and her two kids. So that's you figure, that's about four hundred dollars a month times 12.
Speaker 1:well, and that doesn't cover everything usually well, and and and that you also have to figure there was also a five thousand dollar deductible. Yes, so yeah, right, there, you're looking at $11,000. And then if you talk about somebody who's out of network or you know, et cetera, et cetera, yeah, it goes up to $12,000 very, very quickly, wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, usa, usa, usa.
Speaker 1:So we are looking at $50,528 so far, okay, as opposed to 1945. With all that taken out, you spent already $1,509.
Speaker 2:Out of your $3,000 something.
Speaker 1:Out of your $3,115.
Speaker 2:Okay, so in 1946, it was about a third that was gone, and in 2025, it's like significantly more. It's about.
Speaker 1:That's a little under half in 1946. So 31, 15 so far, you've already spent 50,528. So I think I've, I think I covered everything. Everything sounds so yeah, I mean, it is completely doable, oh shit.
Speaker 2:That is 75%, by the way.
Speaker 1:I forgot one minor thing.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh, tee-peaty little thing.
Speaker 1:Where are we going to park the car? Where are we going to?
Speaker 2:Where am I going to make the sandwiches? Where are?
Speaker 1:you going to make the sandwiches? Damn it, Because I'm fucking hungry now. I want my sandwich.
Speaker 2:And you spent the money on the sandwich materials.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I got the sandwiches. You're healthy enough because I spent a lot of money on medical to go to the kitchen I was able to get my kitchen bitch, I was able to get the uh sandwiches in my car. However, oh, I forgot about the whole house thing. Oh so, looking at 1946, the average cost of a house was three thousand eight hundred dollars so a little more than a year's average salary yeah, about a year and three months salary okay housing nowadays and I was actually generous with this number I because I wanted to get us more than just a shithole place.
Speaker 2:but well, because we do have two kids. So you know we need to make sure the kids grow up in a decent enough place, like the school system is okay and you know we have a yard for the white picket fence and the dog exactly so.
Speaker 1:Now online is saying the average houses in america is five hundred and four thousand dollars are you shitting me? Yeah, I'm for real, for real. Now, again, I'm trying to be, I'm trying to be generous, I'm trying to, you know, like, maybe, maybe we won't have the, the, the, the very nice house, we're going to have to scale back a little bit A little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So yeah, you know, I did do some searching around. I was kind of curious. I was like, okay, like if I was really like you know, like looking for a house right now, I might find something that's pretty decent for about 350.
Speaker 2:And that kind of makes it because I've seen like some interesting prices for stuff. It seems to unsurprisingly depend on like where you are.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, yeah, yeah, so, yeah. So I mean, you know, even, even in West Virginia, here, like this is the lowest area you're looking at at start of like two 50.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So three 50 is not exactly like I mean. Again, I'm being extremely generous.
Speaker 2:We got a real good deal on that.
Speaker 1:We got a really, really good deal on that. You're still looking at $2,200 for a mortgage.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:A month, a month, a month so.
Speaker 2:I think we're out of money I think we're out of money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, you figure that all we had left over was 16, a little over 16. Yeah, just over $16,000. 22 times 12. Yeah, 26. So we're already in debt $10,000.
Speaker 2:Thank God for credit cards.
Speaker 1:Oh damn it. Credit cards.
Speaker 2:Yeah, don't forget to count how much Americans have in debt there.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I mean like credit cards, you know, and then also you got to figure if we're truly making america great again, your credit cards get them out the door because you, young lady, as a woman, no okay, just me, just me I mean me, I, I can actually I'm kind of curious about this, holy shit wait did you look up how much debt Americans have like credit cards? Nope, I looked this. You're going to love this, oh no. So do you want to know what the credit card debt was in America in 1946?
Speaker 2:What.
Speaker 1:Not a penny, because credit cards were not even invented until the 1950s, and even that, you know that does kind of make sense. Not a penny, because credit cards were not even invented until the 1950s, and even that you know, it does kind of make sense. And your first credit card was it was a diner's club.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So yeah, there was no credit card debt. And now I'm curious Actually, it's not as bad as I thought it was going to be. How much is it? Is this per person, or per household.
Speaker 2:And now I'm curious. Actually, it's not as bad as I thought it was going to be. How much is it? Is this?
Speaker 1:per person or per household, per borrower. So the average American credit card debt is $7,321. So you got to figure that's per borrower. You have two people in the household, so about $1,500 in credit card debt or $15,000 in credit card debt.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's just credit card debt. That's not including debt for like anything else. Yeah, that's not just college debt or anything like that.
Speaker 1:So, but I mean, okay, so we're making america great again. So I'm the only one with credit cards? Because I mean I remember you were saying that in one of the past episodes that women were not even allowed to get credit cards, and without their debit cards or like open a bank account right yeah, okay we're 15 or I'm the only one in the household with credit card $7,600 in credit card debit or debt, and that's already including the fact that we are $10,000 in the whole per year.
Speaker 2:This is going really well. I feel amazing.
Speaker 1:And so you know, and here's the thing you know, like whenever I hear about, like you know, like people talking about we've talked about trad boys, before kind of going back into the traditional home where there, you know, a lot of them are speaking for, like you know, like we want, you know, we want our rights taken away, we want everything to be reliant on the male we're, we're sick and tired, we're here to serve.
Speaker 2:We're going to stay home, raise the kids, take care of the house. It's very like traditional in very heavy quotes, view of like what the woman's job was.
Speaker 1:Right, and they talk about how women should be women, men should be men. So you got to look at if we really want to go back to making america great again. But let's look at all of it, because now also including that and we've talked about this with emotions, men's emotions how we are kind of going into the or how we were kind of trained throughout our lifetimes that back in second grade you know like the rules of the playground Don't be a sissy, don't be a girl, only girls cry. You heard it in football Take all of your emotions and bottle up and throw down the field. You heard it in football take all of your emotions and bottle up and throw down the field. You hear it in the military especially, and since you know we all just got back from the military or from war in 1946, embrace the suck and bullshit like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, everyone's got PTSD, but that's not a thing yet. So we just don't talk about the fact that daddy likes to sit in the corner and drink and hates really loud noises yep so.
Speaker 1:And mental health, like you know, like, uh, men's mental health, men are supposed to be like very strong. You know, in the mind and everything you know the woman is the weak one. You know the men or the, the woman, you know, uh, but but men, we're strong, you know, we, we don't need mental health or anything like that. So let's get rid of that bottle up our feelings and everything like that. Now we're we're ten thousand dollars in debt. Now, okay, I am still the provider. You're sure it's not going to work.
Speaker 2:No, because now I've got kids and so I've got to stay home with them. If we're really going back to it, then I'm not going to get hired until my children are grown enough to be taking care of themselves. If even then.
Speaker 1:Just as you said, Dad's hitting the bottle a lot more because dad has PTSD. Also, all this pressure that is falling on me as the guy, and also especially the fact that I'm not allowed to show any type of emotion Except for what are men allowed to show Anger, anger, anger. Don't win a prize, so we're truly going back to when America was so-called great.
Speaker 1:One of the other things that made America great was the fact that we had this very solid household, that you know, the man and the woman and the kids, they all stuck together. That divorce.
Speaker 2:That wasn't a thing, you know like no, no, I'm not. I mean, I'm gonna call out my own family on this because everyone involved has passed away at this point. But it's not like. I found evidence in the 1950 census that one of my great aunts had a child. Then she was married to the person who she had the child with. Then they she was 19, by the way, Unclear if she was married when she gave birth to the child and by 1950, child was living with the grandparents. Damn yeah, but divorce wasn't a thing.
Speaker 1:No, yeah, divorce was. You know, if you got divorced, you were pretty much shunned, because, I mean, you got to remember that religion was extremely part of the family core. And if your religion is saying that you can't get divorced, and all of a sudden now you're, you know, a divorcee, you weren't able to keep the family together.
Speaker 2:Right, clearly for context, this great aunt did actually get remarried again, but it was because she was already knocked up with second child Shotgun money, you can look at the dates and you're like God I love old records.
Speaker 1:So you know like okay, so. So divorce is not a thing. Dad's angry Dad has is going through a lot of mental health Dad is is now being abusive. Well, you know is going through a lot of mental health. Dad is now being abusive. Well, what can a woman do if she's being abused?
Speaker 2:Not a lot in this case, other than Violet's back.
Speaker 1:Well, and also remember that, as a woman, you are there to serve.
Speaker 2:Of course yes.
Speaker 1:And so, yeah, I mean, if you want to talk about if, if it's really getting bad, sure, get a divorce, but also you're going to be shunned. And on top of that, you don't have any work experience because dad's been working this entire time. So now, now you are going to have to figure out a way to pay all the bills, making minimum wage while also raising children while also being shunned by society exactly so yeah, you know, like this isn't a good household for neither the man or the woman.
Speaker 1:The man is bottling up all of his feelings. He is going through alcohol abuse. He is having all the stress of having everything being relied on him. The woman is going through stress as far as I mean she's going through the stress of her husband trying to keep up with the bills and everything like that.
Speaker 2:Well, trying to manage the household, trying to make everything work trying to make everything work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this whole idea that, you know, going back in time and men who are going around saying that men need to be men again, that women need to be women and women kind of going around saying that we're prepared to give up all of our rights to have this, this lifestyle again, it's not even, it's not even doable these days, you know it's not doable these days and it wasn't doable back then.
Speaker 2:This is the thing that people forget too, is that we have this idea that like, oh, you know, the woman just sat at home. Both of my grandmothers worked to some extent, either outside of the house or you know. For instance, one of them was teaching music after she had children teaching lessons Like it was not uncommon, even in the 50s, for women to need to work to help support the household in some form or another. Were women going in and doing the same jobs as men were? No, they weren't, but they were doing something to support the family and everything that was going on. Maybe it was growing vegetables in the backyard that then you sold on the side of the road. That's something that these people conveniently leave out was all of that extra work that was going on to help support the families that supposedly the men were supporting a hundred percent? They weren't. They were doing a lot of it, yeah, but like women were filling in the gaps.
Speaker 1:Right. So I mean and, and the thing is is that you. So I mean, and the thing is is that you might be able to fill in the gaps, that you're able to work very, very, very part-time, considering the fact that you were spending most of the time raising the kids and everything like that didn't leave you any time for, like education. Your only job opportunities were like the very entry levels. You were never given any type of experience. So I mean, you were at entry level, you stayed at entry level yeah, because you got it.
Speaker 1:As soon as you had kids, you were out of the workforce right, so even like, but I mean now you're talking about again, you're already ten10,000 in the hole, and that's not even including clothing, that's not including activities, that's not including time out, vacations, anything like that, and we're coming out of the gate already $10,000 in debt.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a much smaller difference. I think women were having to to make up back in the day that difference between like oh, what's my husband bringing home and what am I like adding to it, to kind of like fill in the gaps, versus now it's like, oh no, it's dozens of thousands, tens of thousands of dollars that the second partner has to bring in.
Speaker 1:How many thousands?
Speaker 2:Look, I tried. I said dozens and I was like, nope, I don't like it, it's tens of thousands. And then I said 10. And now you're going to mock me, so jealous of my accent.
Speaker 1:So, yes, we are tens of thousands of dollars in the hole and again, this is per year, so it's not. We're in the hole for $10,000.
Speaker 2:It's just every year like more and more and more.
Speaker 1:Right, You're raising the kids and we're spending the first 10 years of marriage just focusing on the kids. So that's $100,000 of debt.
Speaker 2:Don't forget interest.
Speaker 1:Don't forget interest Now. I wanted to say this for last oh no. So I forgot one other thing with the $66,662.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh.
Speaker 1:That's pre-taxes.
Speaker 2:Well, so I hope you got some good skills, man, because I'm going to need you to get at least three other jobs if you want me to keep making sandwiches.
Speaker 1:Going off of for me. I put away about 30, 35% for taxes as a freelancer. Let's just say that this big, beautiful bill that was just passed really was for the average income family or the average American family.
Speaker 2:Of course it was.
Speaker 1:Which you're on average. You might get $1,000 more back. However, because of the things that were taken away from medical, you're actually down in the hole another about five thousand dollars.
Speaker 2:So so it's not even like close so.
Speaker 1:So you know, let's just like I'm giving. I'm giving the big beautiful bill, the, the benefit of the doubt that you know it truly is helping the american family out, even lowering taxes down to 20, which, no, it's again. I'm being extremely generous. Again, we are starting off with 50 000 or, I'm sorry, 53 298. So remember the. The price I said before housing is $50,528. So we have $3,270 left over for housing.
Speaker 2:For the year.
Speaker 1:For the year, $3,300. How do you feel?
Speaker 2:about working 24. Hours a day.
Speaker 1:So again, you know like I was extremely generous with the housing and we're looking at $26,000 a year for your mortgage, year for your mortgage. So that $10,000 a year that I was saying about that, that is fantasy land. That again is being hopeful because you also have to take out taxes. So now we're at $23,000 a year that we are in the hole. So this this father knows best lifestyle. Or the Donna Reed, which I know you don't know either one of them because I know you don't want to watch TV, but I'm still surprised you don't know At least those, god maybe one day, if you're lucky, I'll look them up and then I'll understand your, your old people references.
Speaker 1:Okay, this is even before my time asshole. Okay, these were shows back in the 1950s. I wasn't even. I was not even a twinkle in my parents side. My parents didn't even meet. My parents were in grade school at this time. Okay, so fuck off, people, don't give you old people somebody's testy about being old, cranky, old man over there. So so I mean again, we're we're already about $23,000 in debt, and that's again before clothing, before school supplies, that's before any type of entertainment. That is the very, very basics. That's even before BarkBox, ooh, and we know.
Speaker 2:We love BarkBox, yes, barkbox. Oh, and we know we love BarkBox.
Speaker 1:Yes, BarkBox keeps me alive.
Speaker 2:Better make sure that all those subscriptions are set in place.
Speaker 1:BarkBox. If you're listening, I will gladly.
Speaker 2:We will sponsor that.
Speaker 1:So yes, little Miss Molly over here is gonna go without fruity toot loops and her squeaky toys, because there's no way in hell, after being 23 000 in debt, that she's gonna be able to get her Fruity Loops.
Speaker 2:Sorry.
Speaker 1:Molly. But yeah, Donna Reed, it was the fantasy of the 1940s 1950s, household. Actually, yeah, look her up.
Speaker 2:I am, yeah, I'm curious.
Speaker 1:And this is where we get the pomp dress. She was always makeuped up and had the poofy dress waiting for her husband to come home with dinner.
Speaker 2:Did you know she was married in 1943, divorced 1945, married 1945, divorced 1971, and then married again in 1974? Good job, good job, good job. I mean she looks. It's hard to talk because all of these photos like kind of look the same from back in the day, like the actresses. I may have seen some of these photos before, I don't know. But yeah, I see what you mean by that, though Like that very stereotypical.
Speaker 1:With all that being said, the fact that we are that much in debt that men are completely burned out and the only emotion that a man's really able to show is anger, that a woman who is going through abuse really doesn't have that option of leaving the home. Therefore, that was the reason why divorce rates were a lot lower than they are today, were a lot lower than they are today, and that they basically women just had to go through the abuse or not have a place to live. And this is the America that many people are trying to, are trying to go back to. Where do we go from here?
Speaker 2:Well, we start by acknowledging that the america we want to go back to never existed, like the ideas that are being espoused by that movement, never all existed at one time. Again, this idea of like, oh, the man was the happy provider, he worked his job and he came home. And again, the wife who was just sitting at home all day loving her husband, loving her children, all of that that was not actually the norm. Women were working in one way or another, in many cases outside of the home too, to some extent in the 50sies and sixties. Like, all of that, like that was that was a thing. Again, my parents were both born in the fifties. Their mothers worked one way or another. Cause, that's, that's what you did, you were, you were allowed to. Both of my grandmothers received an education, both of them went to college of some sort. And so this idea of like, oh, you know, women didn't do this, they just sat there, they got married at 18. Like, that was not actually the norm. And so pushing this idea on people of like, oh, things were so great back then it didn't exist, and the stuff that did exist, as you said, was not great, like the fact that you had dad who's got all this like bottled up rage and feelings and he doesn't have a way to get it out. That's not a happy home. Mom who's like zonked out on medication so that she's not bored out of her mind or so that she can, like you know, deal with the stress and all that. That's not a great thing. Children who are dying of diseases that are now preventable because we know back then we didn't have the vaccination. You know we didn't have the knowledge that we do now. Like we just gave children alcohol so like that's fine, puts the baby to sleep. Here you go a little more brandy. You know that we understand now that that that's not. We don't need to do that.
Speaker 2:So I think it's the first step is understanding that, like it's, this is a made-up fantasy world that maga is pushing, like the idea of maga make america great again is pushing on people like they're making this up like, oh, it was perfect, it was great, everyone was happy. No, no, they weren't. They weren't happy, it didn't exist. What did existed, like there were always going to be problems. So I think that's the first step is you acknowledge that, like this was not a real thing and then, second you, you pick up on the fact that, like, what we did have was not there. There were some really big problems. Like we've made some like really great advances and, and I think once you like overcome those two bits, then you understand that, like this isn't a viable solution. I would hope.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, like I know. So I know my grandmother on my, my, my mother's side. She did do work like part-time and, unfortunately, like she had it pretty hard because, like I mean, like my grandfather was not exactly the grandpa I love you, but not exactly the, the, the, the most caring person. You know. He was in the navy. He cheated on my grandmother many, many times. He was alcoholic, he was Irish, you know, yeah, he probably not the greatest person. My grandmother, I would say, definitely deserved better than him, but she was kind of stuck in that whole thing where, like she couldn't leave him, even though she threatened many times. And the thing is is that my mom, my aunts and uncles got to grow up seeing this.
Speaker 1:I know my dad. He grew up in a one income household that his father, but my dad also lived in what was considered a quote unquote changing neighborhood. So you know my dad also lived in what was considered a quote unquote changing neighborhood. So you know he grew up where he grew up in Chicago and it was one of these neighborhoods that was I fucking hate saying this now but more and more black families moving to there and therefore, like the housing was going down and things like that. So he ended up having to live not fully poor because, like I said, it was still like a changing neighborhood when he was growing up, but it wasn't exactly like beverly hills, any type type of things like that and so.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I mean this whole fantasy that you know like, uh, the one income household you know and having like the Donna Reed house. I think the biggest thing is is that, because that was my image of the 1940s- as well.
Speaker 2:1940s, 1950s, like that's what pops into my head, even though I know it's not true. Of like again, the like I see the clothing, I see the colors. Like because we've been inundated with it for years, even before maga existed. Of like housewife 1950s housewife. She sat at home and made jello salad and looked cute and that's that all. That's all she did Like. We've been fed that narrative for years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And I think that a big part of it is just TV. You know it's because you I mean any show that you had it was always the single income father knows best on a read show. God, who's with Spanky and Little?
Speaker 2:Rascals, see, I know them Ooh.
Speaker 1:Look at you go Wow. So, yeah, I think that one of the biggest things is being able to recognize that it's a fucking TV show, like none of that was real. So, like you know, the kids were grown up and that they did do like, just as you said, you know, grown vegetables in the yard where they were able to do something to kind of like that. Still, like, a lot of women were in this predicament where, just like my grandmother, couldn't, couldn't leave the house and had to deal with the abuse and I don't know if it was ever physical, but I do know a lot of it was emotional abuse at the very least. But yeah, all of this is total bullshit and I think that that's the biggest thing that people need to realize is what they're going for is an absolute lie.
Speaker 2:And even the tradwives that we've talked about on our show before, a lot of them, who are big influencers, are getting paid. That's their whole point is. They're getting paid. And they're sitting there telling you like just sit at home, be like me, bitch, you have sponsors, yeah, at home. Be like me, bitch, you have sponsors, yeah. Like. Or your husband, cough cough, ballerina farms is like some rich millionaire heir or whatever. Like you guys are not wanting for money. Of course you can do this, but your average family?
Speaker 1:it's not feasible right at all so, with all that being said, where would you put this on our scale of toxicity? Would you say that this is a green potato where just shave off the green and you can still eat it? Death cap mushroom where you have a 50-50 shot of dying? Or a antifreeze jello where it?
Speaker 2:is a delightful last meal. I'm going back and forth on this one where part of me is like it can't be antifreeze because is it as bad as you know? Something like gaslighting. But then I look at it and I'm like but maybe it is. Like, maybe it really is this idea that we're pushing on people that says like, hey, here's this like fantasy world, you want this right? Like go back to it. Never existed, so it's not going to exist now, especially not now.
Speaker 2:And pushing people to believe that you know it damages both men and women. Like men believes, like, oh, I'm supposed to be this big tough guy, I'm supposed to be the provider and we know, like evidence, science shows us that men get really upset when women make more than them. Like that's that's already still a problem we have in our society. And then you know we're feeding them more. It's like you're supposed to be the only provider and like pushing that all on dudes. It's like don't cry, don't show emotions. You have to make all this money to provide for your family and if you don't, you're not a real man.
Speaker 2:And then for the women. It's like you're supposed to, you're supposed to find a real man and you're supposed to provide this thing, but we don't actually give you the tools to do it, and I think you end up with an entire potentially stunted generation of people who try and do this. It doesn't work, or they just never even end up together. This is what's happening, with Gen Z's going to sit at home and take care of me and have my babies and you know I'm going to be the man and women are like no, no, I don't want that, and so they're going further apart. Like it'll be interesting to see what happens with that. So I guess I do have to give this an antifreeze. Like I think it is really, really bad for society.
Speaker 1:Yeah, to freeze, I think it is really, really bad for society. Yeah, I actually agree. I think that this is.
Speaker 1:it sounds cutesy to when you kind of first mention it, but I think, based off of everything that you said, and then also I would have to throw on top of it, that laws are being made towards that's true, this, this way of living and that's kind of the thing is that now you're not, now you're trying to force people into this way of living, which is absolutely impossible right, because if you say like, hey, this is something I want to have, like for myself personally, you know more power to you.
Speaker 2:If that's the lifestyle you want to lead and you can make it happen, I'm not gonna stop you by any means. But you're right, yeah, I mean, laws are being passed forcing people, telling them like you have to do this, and now you actually don't even have another option. It's not even like well, you should, it's you, you have to. You may not have another choice, but it's not viable yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I mean, I I think that you know it's, it's so that I I say that you know, flat out, it's antifreeze, no, no splashing of it. I I think that, uh, it is flat out just ant freeze pouring into into lime jello.
Speaker 2:Lime jello. I think you're right. Yeah, I think that it has to be yum.
Speaker 1:So if you have any stories of your grandparents and if they were able to make it work, or if they weren't able to make it work, feel free to write us at toxic, at awesomelyteskillscom. You can also find us on Twitter. Blue Sky. Are we still on Twitter?
Speaker 2:Kind of technically. The web hosting that we have for the podcast makes it really easy to post on Twitter, so I just do it anyway. So, I prefer, if you don't find us on Twitter.
Speaker 1:Twitter, a blue sky, instagram, facebook. Please feel free to connect with us there. And then until next time. I've been Christopher Patchett, lcsw, and I've been christopher patchett lcsw and I've been lindsey mclean bye bye.
