Toxic Cooking Show
Misogyny, $800 first dates, simps, and high-value women: Social media has been busy cooking up and feeding us an addictive but toxic slurry of trends over the past few years. Here at The Toxic Cooking Show we're two friends dedicated to breaking down these trends, terms, and taunts into their simplest ingredients to understand where they came from and how they affect our lives. Join us each week as we ponder and discuss charged topics like personal responsibility and "not all men" before placing them on our magical Scale O' ToxicityAny comments or topics you want to hear about write to us at toxic@awesomelifeskills.com
Toxic Cooking Show
Rethinking "Boy Moms" and "Girl Dads"
What if the labels "boy mom" and "girl dad" are doing more harm than good? On the latest episode of the Toxic Cooking Show, Lindsay McClain and co-host Christopher Patchet, LCSW, peel back the layers of these seemingly innocent titles to reveal unsettling truths. We question the impact of parental favoritism and societal expectations, exposing how these roles can lead to favoritism and even toxic family dynamics. From the online presence of "boy moms" to the stereotypes upheld by "girl dads," we examine how these identities can overshadow genuine parenting responsibilities and harm family relationships.
We don't hold back as we tackle the more disturbing aspects of these dynamics. We delve into the troubling "boy mom" phenomenon, where mothers can idolize their sons to an unhealthy degree, even intruding on major life events like weddings. On the flip side, we explore how "girl dads" can unintentionally perpetuate toxic masculinity or become less involved in their daughters' lives as they grow up. Our discussion shines a light on the need for balanced, supportive parenting that doesn't confine children to outdated gender roles.
Finally, we offer a hopeful look at how modern families can break free from these limiting labels. Emphasizing the importance of setting boundaries and recognizing toxic patterns, we encourage parents to create environments where respect and independence are prioritized. With insights into evolving family dynamics, we aim to empower listeners to foster healthier relationships, raise emotionally intelligent children, and challenge societal norms for a better future. Join us for a conversation that promises to transform the way you view parenting and family interactions.
Hi and welcome to the Toxic Cooking Show, where we break down toxic people into their simplest ingredients. I'm your host for this week, lindsay McLean, and with me is my fantastic co-host.
Speaker 2:Christopher Patchett, LCSW.
Speaker 1:There are a lot of things on this podcast that I feel like I'm very qualified to talk about, and there are a lot of things on this podcast I feel like you're very qualified to talk about. And then there are some things that, like you know, there was a lot of research that had to be kind of like done into this and I sometimes wonder it's like man, if I had kids, this would be easier, Although then again maybe not. But today we are talking about the dreaded boy mom versus girl dad, and how are you feeling about that?
Speaker 2:I know like originally you. You told me what the topic was and the first thing I said was what is this? Like the mama's boy, like daddy's girl, and you're like no, this is something completely different.
Speaker 1:It's sort of related, but like worse on crack. This is maybe it's a good thing. I'm not a parent. When I read stuff like this, I'm like, oh, thank god I don't have to fucking deal with these people. Um, I can look at it from afar on the internet and I'm like, and you see it, because I certainly do, and I'm very aware that this is also the type of thing that, because the algorithm knows that I'm a woman, it's like you would love to see these videos, and I know it is not giving you these.
Speaker 2:Oh God, oh God, okay, what are we getting ourselves into?
Speaker 1:So we'll start with the boy mom, because there's a lot more about the boy mom on the internet and I think that that is mainly just because moms are using stuff like Instagram to talk about this far more than dads. I think that you have a lot on both sides of the boy moms and the girl dads, and they're both equally toxic, but you see less of girl dads talking about shit on Instagram. They're not making videos about this. They're there, they're just not posting about it every day. So boy mom sounds really simple, right, she is mom to boy like next moving on, and certainly, if you ever like Google this, you ever hear it like some people are using this term in a completely normal way. They're just talking about how I am a mom to a boy, or like a mom to boys in general, and that can be really helpful if you're trying to connect with other people who are dealing with the same things. You are so like all of the energy, all of the beating each other up, all of the pissing on stuff, like you may want to connect with other moms who have boys and are dealing with these same problems. So there's a healthy side to it where you're just like yes, I'm a boy mom. I'm going to be dealing with different stuff than somebody who has girls in some respects. Cool, that's fine.
Speaker 1:You see some stuff poking fun at this. You see some people who are really proud, like boy mama cups and shirts and whatever. I'm not necessarily sure I would want to advertise my children's genitals to the world via a Stanley Cup. It's just me personally. Again, if you want to go on forums and talk about this to get some help dealing with stuff, but, like you know, when you start having to advertise it, like when this becomes part of your personality, I think that's when we're like headed for toxic cooking show territory I'm kind of curious about how deep we're gonna go in because, like you know, my dad had on his license plate Navy dad.
Speaker 2:He's proud of me being in the Navy. You see, like I mean, I remember being in the military scene, like saying you know, military wife is the hardest job of it all. You know, yes, yes, it's. It's kind of putting a label on yourself, especially like okay, so like even now I I more or less have this, for probably not the greatest reasons, but I have, like navy veteran on my license plate holder, more for the fact of not getting pulled over.
Speaker 1:Look, milk it man.
Speaker 2:You earned it. Actually, I totally forgot to tell you this. Guess what I did yesterday. What did you do? Join the VFW.
Speaker 1:Nice, Good job Dad.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, you know, veteran is a part of my identity. So I'm curious if this is in your face like boy mom, how deep are we going to go into that? Or how deep do these people go into that? Oh God, I'm not liking that look.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, like with so many of these things, if you want to identify with it a little bit, then that's okay, I can understand, especially if you have multiple boys or if your first child was a boy and you're just like, oh my God, what do I do about this? And so again, you're on these forms. You may kind of say like, okay, yes, I have multiple male children and so we have a very different life than somebody who has only girls or who has more girls and only one boy, or something like that. There's always a healthy side to this. And then there's the really, really toxic side, because the boy mom, when I tell you she is obsessed with her male child, she is obsessed Like he can do no wrong If she has a child who's a girl. Girl doesn't matter, girl can't do anything right. Girl doesn't matter, girl can't do anything right. No, not interesting, not fun. Like the girl is just problems and all this drama. But her son, her son, he for her, like she was his first love.
Speaker 2:Okay, yep, not liking this already.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that right there just really creeped me out when you see people talking about this. Oh, you know, I'll always be his first love. I think that there is a difference between I would hope there is a difference between the way you love your child and the way you love your spouse, just like you know, there's a little bit of a difference between I would imagine again having no children of my own, no two-legged children anyway, there is a difference between how I would love a pet and how I would love my child. I would hope that there's a difference there and I would hope that you know we can use love for both of them. You know, I love my pet, I love my child, I love my parents, but like these are different types of love.
Speaker 2:Right, I mean excuse me, yeah, you need a trash can over there. Yeah, let's just definitely not go deep into that, but let's just say yes, different types of love yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:This is just right up that whole purity ball kind of alley. Um, it's this very strange, uncomfortable sexualization of the parent-child relationship because of course you love your children, I hope you love your children, but to put like to say this about your child that you know he'll never be able to love somebody else because he loved me first. Did he love you, or was he an infant who needed you?
Speaker 2:yeah there's.
Speaker 1:there's a bit of a difference there, and I don't like the fact that this is when we're talking about the boy. Mom, she never says this about her female child, if she has one, and this is only about the male child that we're focused on. That, you know. For him it's important that he loved her first, before any other woman, so this boy ends up becoming a sort of replacement for mom's romantic partner.
Speaker 2:Oh God.
Speaker 1:She's relying.
Speaker 2:Freud is just going swimming through my head right now and is is really making me sick.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I told you it was going to get fun. So she relies very heavily on her son emotionally for fulfillment. She's not getting that from her husband, so her son is providing all that. Her son is providing all of this attention for her, particularly like male attention that she's not getting from other places. Necessarily You'll see people say things like oh yeah, this is one man who won't break my heart, this is one man who won't ever leave me. Like you're putting all of this emotional burden on your child that does not need to be put on them and should not be put on them Like this. This kid is everything to her. He is her world.
Speaker 1:This is the type of mom who's also, as a result, super hostile to other women just in general in her life, cause she views all women as competition for her son's attention, or just like male attention in general, but particularly her son. Because her son is perfect, her son can do no wrong. Boys will be boys. Like I'm sure she deserved it. Like my son would never mistreat a woman. I raised him right. This is the type of mom who's making that type of excuse when her child acts badly, like again, he is perfect, the perfect male specimen.
Speaker 2:Yep, not liking this.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yep, not liking this again. So they see, like every woman, as competition for son's love, no girlfriend is ever good enough for him. This is the mother-in-law from hell. I don't know how much you probably haven't really run into this stereotype, being a dude, in case you weren't aware, but I see so much of this on the internet, just like people doing skits, people talking about it, like how horrific mother-in-laws can be to their son's wife. And not all of them are boy moms, like some of them are just shitty people, but there definitely are a lot of them who, it's like we may not have realized it at the time, we may not have had that name for them, but the kind of ideas and concepts that make up the boy mom are definitely present.
Speaker 1:The mother-in-law who's like no, I must take care of my son. Like you don't know how to do these things for him. Like let let mama do it. You know, I'll do all the cooking, I'll do all of this. Like you know, you have this man child who can't do his laundry, can't clean up after himself, can't do anything, because mom has made him super dependent on her. She has coddled him. He is emotionally stunted because she was always there to just dry his little tears when he was crying because he got broken up with, because that girl wasn't worth it anyway. She was just a slut.
Speaker 2:You deserve better, honey boo, it's yeah, I mean, the first thing that's really coming to my head right now is just like these are the types of moms that I'm picturing. Guy gets picked up, arrested for sexual assault, and not my son, you know, she asked for it, she did this. She's the little whore. And now this person who took that huge and very brave step forward is now being belittled by an adult.
Speaker 1:Yeah, by the very person who you thought would be on your side, like you generally kind of assume as a woman that, like other women are going to understand what you've been through, like not just women. In many cases you look for other people who are kind of in the same box more or less as you would be, like you understand what I've been through, you're going to be on my side if it makes sense to be on my side. And so, as a woman, like when you're dealing with these sexual assault cases, more often than not women are like you know, yeah, we're not going to blame you for whatever it was you were. We're not going to blame you for whatever it was you were drinking or not drinking where you were walking, who you were talking to. This mom, the boy mom does does because her, her precious little boy child, can do nothing. That is wrong. He would never. He would never because, remember, she was his first love okay.
Speaker 2:So I'm now curious how are these portrayed online? Because obviously, hopefully it's not going to be like well, my, my precious little boy was accused of sexual assault and there's no, hopefully that's not being portrayed on. Is Fuck, oh God, that look.
Speaker 1:Yeah, unfortunately, you can find. You find a lot of like skits and people talking about this type of person, making fun of them and calling them out. You find a lot of like skits and people talking about this type of person making fun of them and calling them out. You find a lot of these people existing and making videos themselves, completely unironically, about their son and about how, how perfect he is and how great it is to be a boy mom again. This whole like I was his first love. That is something that I have seen women say in videos unironically, and other women are on there like, yes, I can't wait to feel I'm going to have a baby boy. I'm so excited to have that relationship and that bond with them Not with their daughter we're not talking about like, I'm so excited to have a child, I'm so excited to love them and and watch them grow and do all of that it's I'm excited to have a boy. I'm going to be a boy mom. These people will call themselves that and they mean it.
Speaker 2:Okay, yep, yep, yep, yep. Okay, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 1:If you've ever heard of the mom who shows up at her son's wedding wearing white, again, this is probably like not even on your radar.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, this is something that's. This is fucking Greek to me.
Speaker 1:This is something that women kind of see all the time. There's always this fear of who's going to show up at your wedding wearing white, because you know you're the bride, so you're supposed to be wearing white. No one else is wearing like white or a really light color, and yet you do have people who will show up wearing white to weddings, even though it's like super, super, you don't do that.
Speaker 2:Like in the.
Speaker 1:West we understand that, like, unless it has been explicitly stated, the bride wears white, nobody else does. But you will have women who do it anyway because they're looking for the attention. Like you have women who are going to be pick me's and then, oh, I didn't know.
Speaker 1:Or you hear stories, like you can find stories about women who showed up at their son's wedding, like wearing their old wedding dress oh god the women who, like, insist on having the first dance with their son, the ones who it's just like, somehow the wedding is all about them, even though it's their child who's getting married to somebody else, they are weirdly inserting themselves into that place, into the bride's place, not just like I'm going to make this about me, but I'm going to make this about me being the bride, but not the bride but the bride, even though my son's the groom. Like I said, weird, weird, weird, weird sexualization of your parent child.
Speaker 2:I was just going to say making the honeymoon about them as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, god, it just keeps going and it's so, so gross, and yet you find these women out there. I'll send you some stuff after this. I avoided sending it to you ahead of time because I wanted to shock you with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to shock you with it. I, yeah, I mean, this is this is um freud or sigmund freud territory here at his finest, uh, yeah yeah, it's, it's really gross.
Speaker 1:So don't worry. Don't worry, like everyone gets a little bit of this deliciousness too, because we have the girl dad. Just like the boy mom, he is obsessed with his pretty princess, fairy pink, unicorn ballet daughter. I know, that's all these words I just said. He is not there to support her interest in sports. He is not there to be a feminist ally and be like yes, girl, you go, like you do whatever it is you want to do.
Speaker 1:He is there wearing a shirt that says, and I quote guns don't kill people. Dads with pretty daughters do. Or maybe it's a different day and you stop by, and now he's wearing a new shirt because his wife did his laundry. And this shirt says girl dad, her protector, forever. Again like these. These are the people who have their daughters go to purity balls. It's, it's not a religious thing. In both these cases, it is not necessarily tied to being far-right Christian. Certainly, I think you are a little bit more likely to see this type of person identify as that religiously, as opposed to oh yeah, I'm a liberal Episcopalian, but you could find one, unfortunately but you, you could find one.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, I'm I'm kind of curious now because, like there, there was a video that I saw a couple years ago that I absolutely fucking loved. It was a dad, dad, my size, like a goatee shaved is this the one of him dancing with his daughter? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. So, dude my size, you know, big-ass dude, shaved head, big goatee tattoos up and down the arm and there's videos of him having a tea party with his daughter. Now his daughter's like maybe like what four, five, six?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so he's having like maybe like what four, five, six, yeah. So he's having like little tea parties with her. He's dressed up in a tutu, pink tutu and like you know, dancing with her. So I think that that right there is very beautiful in the respect of like that you are showing that a father can spend time with his daughter doing the things that she enjoys and then also kind of blurring those lines of masculinity and femininity?
Speaker 1:No for sure, I agree with you. I love that video. It's the one I'm thinking of. It's him doing this like parent-child dance class with her and he just like towers over literally every other adult and he's just like this huge hulking, like big dude and she's this tiny little child, like having a great time and like with boy moms.
Speaker 1:You can have people who say I'm a girl dad and they mean it in a completely non-toxic way. They are simply identifying with the fact that I am a father to a female child. That's it. I'm excited. I love my daughter. She's amazing. She's everything I want to partake in activities that interest her. I want to spend time with her, I want to do things with her, I want to bond with her and that's really good.
Speaker 1:Just like the boy mom who says this is my life, pissing on everything. I've dealt with male children before. I know how this works. You're identifying with it and you want to kind of embrace that sign and be like yes, it means that my life is more chaotic, it means that my life is filled with a lot more unicorns and ballet stuff than I probably would have imagined before having a kid. But you know, it's okay, it's what my kid likes. That's what I'm here for. So just because you see these words doesn't mean it's instantly like flashing sign, toxic runaway. But that does also kind of make it hard to figure out where to draw the line sometimes when you're like watching somebody and you're like so you're saying, girl, dad, and I'm seeing you do some good things, but I'm also seeing you do some bad things. Again, guns don't kill people. Dads with pretty daughters do. Ooh, crossed the line right there. Let's not wear a shirt that says that, okay, don't do that.
Speaker 2:I mean that sure rubs me the wrong way in multiple ways.
Speaker 1:It's real. I mean that sure rubs me the wrong way in multiple ways so many ways it's real. I will send you the screenshot of this thing.
Speaker 2:I found it and I was like nope, oh, fuck yeah no-transcript, like if she wants to be.
Speaker 1:You know rough and tumble, even if she's like no, I'm a girly girl, but you know, I want to do something like gymnastics. Gymnastics is an intense sport. Have you seen like Simone Biles muscles?
Speaker 2:Oh God, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, it's even something like that that we consider feminine in some ways. It's a lot of work and it means that you end up looking quote unquote not the ideal feminine body type, whereas ballet. Ballet is grace and soft petals and pretty tutus and pink. Pink is important, again very, very feminine, and so that is okay. Daughter can do that type of thing, but if she does other stuff, that's not very obviously feminine and cute and small girl. Dad doesn't support that Because that's not what girls do.
Speaker 2:Girl must do pink things, okay, and that's kind of the thing with the shirt, that really that that does rub me. The wrong way is it's not just guns. Don't shoot people. Dad's with daughters do.
Speaker 1:That's a pretty dollars. So yeah that is her only. Quality is pretty, not smart. That's interesting, not nice, yeah Not strong. She's Not nice, not strong, she's pretty.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's. Oh God, that fucking.
Speaker 1:Right, right, I knew you'd love this one. The other gross thing about girl dads, I think, is that we tend to see them leave their daughter's life like sooner. So boy mom is attached to her son at the hip for like as long as he'll let her be. She will never leave him because, again, she was his first love. I want to keep repeating that because I know it grosses you out. I can see your face right now.
Speaker 1:But for the girl, once the daughter gets older, she needs less protection because now she is a woman who likes pink and girly things, and this is you. It was cute when she was small and so we raised her to like this type of thing. We pushed her to like this type of thing and to make this her personality. But now that she is an adult and she likes it, it's not interesting anymore. It's just woman things over that type of stuff or with anything. To be honest, it's all just this big mystery to him. Girls like to get their nails done and all this pink on everything. He's the type of dad who complains about how much having females in his house costs him, while also expecting and pushing for the women in his life to have their hair done, done, their nails done, to be this very again, very feminine, very feminine for the male gaze type, pretty. But then he's going to bitch about it that he's having to pay all this money for it. I see you.
Speaker 2:I actually so there's one other thing that I think that can kind of get thrown in is the guys who are I will protect my daughter no matter what are probably the same exact guys that demands their boyfriend to ask for permission and therefore, like now, is more the idea that well, here's a man that I approved.
Speaker 1:Shut up. I'm going to talk about this later.
Speaker 2:Go for it, rude, nope, nope, nope, go ahead.
Speaker 1:But see, I'm glad you made that connection because they are. I mean, this is the dad who talks about stuff like you know. Oh, you better have my daughter back here at 10 bm. You know, you need to be a big man, because only a man can have my daughter very much, treating her like a possession. She's just this like cute little thing that I had in my house and that I raised, and so she's. She's good and pure and I'm going to find a good man who will take care of her. And then once you find that man to take care of her and she's married off, like lol, not my problem anymore. Like now you get to pay for everything, okay, bye, just gone. Like now this is your problem.
Speaker 1:This is the exact type of guy who makes jokes about. You know, once his daughter is married off to another guy, again she's his problem. Now, lol, if only I could do the same thing to my wife. You know that that gross boomer type humor it's not just the boomers. I do associate it more with boomers who are like hate my wife, hate my life, type thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm trying to think like um. No, I still see it in, in, in our generations as well I do too.
Speaker 1:Unfortunately, we've we've carried it down, which is a topic for another episode. Maybe at some point I'm not, I'm not guaranteeing that one took us almost 30 minutes to get there.
Speaker 1:Look you know had to happen. But keep in mind this is the guy who expects his wife to be very done up as a result either because of him or because of her upbringing that she also expects it. Daughter is also brought up to expect this type of thing to assume that my hair needs to be done, my nails need to be done, I need to have my little spray tan, I need to have the cute little outfits. And who's going to pay for that? Well, my dad does, and so therefore, I'm probably going to look for a husband who does the same. And if my dad has kind of a say in that, if he's going to be standing over me like you need to ask me for my daughter's hand in marriage before you propose to her type dad and a girl dad would be far more likely to do that than just like a regular dad Then, yeah, you're probably going to end up with someone who thinks very similarly.
Speaker 1:Just that like huge push to be like you got to be perfect, you got to be very feminine. I'm going to complain about it because, oh, women take so long to get ready. But I also married a woman who I knew took 45 minutes to put her makeup on no shame. Makeup is hard, but like, if you're not the type of person who values that, then don't marry somebody who does.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, pretty easy yeah.
Speaker 1:So yeah, those are boy moms and girl dads. Like I said, you see a lot more of boy moms on the internet because I think they're just more likely to be talking about this, whereas girl dads are not posting necessarily as many stories and such on Instagram and TikTok about doing this type of thing, but they still exist. I mean, I can think of examples of both of these people, of a boy mom and a girl dad. I know these people in my life.
Speaker 2:I'm not close to them in any way, but I have met these people and and I'm guessing that, like you know, like another reason why you're seeing more of the boy moms is because, again, is that attachment throughout their entire lives, versus where girl dads are almost looking forward to that time that they're able to pass on their daughters to some god. Pass on, yeah, but pass on their daughters onto somebody else, yeah they're looking to just force them off on somebody.
Speaker 1:You've raised this delicate little pink fairy blossom of a child and you're just waiting to like eat her off at some dude and then you and her husband can hang out together and drink beers and be delinquents like. Then it's fun. But interacting with her like that bond gets cut very quickly as soon as she no longer is this very small, protectable child. In your view, she's no longer interesting to the girl. Dad, you, you don't ever try and like bond with her over further things, even if she stays very feminine.
Speaker 2:Now it's not fun because again she's now an adult and now it's a burden I mean so, like in my mind, I'm already picturing like dad and husband hanging out and, uh, the husband kind of continuing on with, like you know, sitting there with their their budweiser and saying about you know, yeah, you know, I mean yesterday we were supposed to go out and she's taking forever, and the dad's saying, oh well, you married her just like her mother, wonder where she got that from.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is, this is exactly those dudes. And the two, the two women, mom and daughter are in the kitchen, cooking, cleaning, doing all that type of stuff, probably complaining about their husbands. Don't do this, don't help out around the house, don't help out with the kids. Like both of them, there's a little bit of responsibility, in kind of like both cases you're like I mean, you married him too right, like you knew what he was going to be, like you knew what he thought of you. Surely, during the time that you guys were dating, he made nasty comments about like how long it took you to get ready, or like how expensive your nails were, or something like that. And yet you did choose to still marry him and have kids with him.
Speaker 2:Oh, here's the beautiful side of it is they were groomed that way. Yeah, like this is men being men.
Speaker 1:they're getting complained about us taking our time and, you know, passed down from father to husband well, yeah, because you grew up seeing that in your, yeah, household like this was what you saw your parents do was mom spent all this time, like you know, primping and getting ready and dad was like in his corner drinking his Budweiser, and so when your husband does the same thing, it doesn't strike you as odd at all. For the boy moms, I think it's a little bit different. I mean, I feel like for the women who do marry these guys, I've seen certainly plenty of stories of women walking away from a guy like this, like not even marrying him because it was too much stress, or women just talking about the fact that they have had to go no contact with mother-in-law because husband woke up to the fact. That's like. This is really not okay.
Speaker 1:Mom is stressing me out, she's stressing you out, she's creating all these problems within our relationship because she's trying to be in your shoes, even though she's my mother, she's acting like my wife and she's pushing you out. I think there's still plenty of cases and maybe they just don't get talked about. I think there's still plenty of cases and maybe they just don't get talked about of the boy mom who just completely dominates her son's life from the moment he enters into this world until the moment she's gone from it. She is right there, and you just don't hear those women speak about their experiences as much. I'm very aware there are so many stories Just in society in general though, about mother-in-laws. You don't hear about father-in-laws.
Speaker 2:I mean, they had a movie of monster-in-law.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, there's even a plant that's called like mother-in-law's tongue, and the whole point of the plant Is it kind of comes up and it ends in a point, each leaf and it's spiky. We have stuff like that in society where we just view this mother-in-law as this, like nasty creature, who, for women, you're always like, oh fuck my mother-in-law. Like, oh, she's gonna be a pain, she's gonna try and do all this, so like it's rooted deep. But I guess if so many moms are like this to some extent or another, you're like, well, this is the way it's going to be, like we all just have shit, mother-in-laws oh.
Speaker 1:God, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's both of them are really gross. I think, especially with this extra sexualization aspect, that dad being focused on protecting his tiny little, precious daughter until he can just yeet her off at some other dude, it's got some really gross vibes to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it does. So where do you see us kind of going from here, like do you think that are there any sort of quick fixes to this? Is there anything that can be done to like cut down on this type of thing?
Speaker 2:quick fixes? No, unfortunately, because this is father and husband who are outbacks drinking a beer. Now, when this couple now has a daughter, this is going to be acceptable and then it's going to be no, but it's. It's going to have to come down the boundary. So you know, because at some point I'm sure there are things where, like you know, like the for the boy mom, where, yeah, you know, like mom, I'm on my honeymoon, like why are you calling me like three times? Like being able to say, like you know, like dude, like okay, it was cute when I was five, but now I'm a full adult. So, basically, it's going to have to come down to that generation. Unfortunately, I don't think that. You know, the thing is with change is that people tend not to want to change, and it's going to come down to the people who are feeling caved in and feeling like you know, like the, the daughters and the sons themselves who are like yo, no, like you tell me that this guy that I absolutely love is not good enough.
Speaker 2:You don't get to tell me who I can and cannot date the boy mom saying, look, you know, she's doing everything perfectly Like your soup sucked Hers is good. You know, like whatever it is like, you know like being able to say, like those boundaries and saying, like you don't get to tell her how to make you know this recipe yeah, I'm, in a way, weirdly hopeful, even though, of course, we're still seeing so much of this stuff on the internet.
Speaker 1:Of right. This moment there is a woman out there making a video about being a boy mom and she means it in a good way, guarantee, she's making a post. There are I looked it up yesterday and I forgot to write down. It's like 18 something million hashtag uses the word hashtag boy mom on Instagram. Now again, some of those are completely normal, some of those are completely fine, but damn, that's a lot, a lot of people tagging stuff with hashtag boy mom.
Speaker 1:But I'm weirdly hopeful in that I think that this generation on down, at least like millennials on down I don't know as much about Gen X seems more willing and able to cut out toxic parents and say I don't like what you're doing, I don't like the way you're treating me, I don't like the way you're treating my spouse, I don't like the way you're treating our children, and I've given you enough warnings, because I'm going to therapy and I understand how this works and if you don't stop, you won't have access to my life anymore, whereas I think in previous generations you just didn't do that, you couldn't just cut out family because family was like really, really important. And there's still a lot of pressure today, especially depending on where you are in the world. It's like family is the most important thing. You can never cut out a parent. You can never cut out a sister or whatever. Never, you know, cut out a sister or whatever brother if they ask for help, like no matter how much they've hurt you in the past, they're your blood and you always have to beat it for them.
Speaker 1:That is still like a really common thing, unfortunately, but at least in the West, I think people are becoming more aware. That's like look, toxic is toxic. And if I've given you multiple opportunities to change, I have told you multiple times you know here's a line, do not cross it. And you continue to show that you don't care. There will be consequences and you see a lot of boomers being like I don't understand why my child won't talk to me. If you have to ask yourself that question, yeah, most of the time you are the source of the problem, not them. There are always exceptions, but I do see that type of thing with some regularity on the internet and I think it's good.
Speaker 1:I think it's good that we are starting to set those boundaries, to be like no, if you're going to treat me like this or you're going to treat my spouse like this, we're not going to let you in our lives. And when you start doing that, I think you give your kids a better chance of growing up in a healthy environment where, like you, don't have grandma just showing up to cook dinner Because, you know, even after being married all these years, that woman doesn't know how to take care of my baby, boy or dad. Encouraging super toxic behavior with your husband being like, yeah, it's okay if you want to come golfing with me all day Sunday, it doesn't matter that you're leaving my daughter with her or you guys' three kids home alone all day yeah, many times to themselves. No, we're not partaking in that Like. I don't want my kids growing up seeing that.
Speaker 1:And because that is the only way I, as the husband, can interact with you, the dad, I guess we just don't interact anymore. Yeah, and it's it. I can see where it's very hurtful, but also that behavior is extremely hurtful. So, no, but also that behavior is extremely hurtful.
Speaker 2:So no, don't put up with it, oh God I know.
Speaker 1:So on our scale, oh, toxicity, where would you rate boy moms and girl dads? Are they a green potato? Make you kind of sick if you eat it, but just scrape off the green part and then you can cook it like normal and you'll be fine. Are they a death cat mushroom? 50-50 chance of death or coma even after cooking it? Or are they a delicious but deadly last snack of antifreeze?
Speaker 2:I would have to put this at green potato plus. I think that it's more of an annoyance. It's uh, yeah, I, I. I think that it becomes. It's more of a an annoyance where it is going beyond boundaries. You're telling this person like, even after they're, they're because there's, there's also the other. I'm gonna put this at a death cap minus.
Speaker 2:Okay, so the reason why I'm kind of saying that is because it is. It is ultimately it ultimately an annoyance. But the reason why I kind of put it into death cap territory is that after you know, like four, like I mean well, if you look at like you know, like Eric Erickson, my favorite psychologist, just for the name but if you look at eric erickson starting at the age of two, like that child needs to start making their own decision. So you know, on certain things, so like you might do something of picking out two outfits and being like which one do you want to go with? You know. So this way they're not like putting on. Like you know, like if you ever saw the movie big daddy, where the kid is wearing like you know, like flippers for shoes and has a snorkel and he's going I mean, my mom let my sister and me dress ourselves and apparently we would show up at preschool with some pretty outlandish outfits.
Speaker 1:Because you know, her point was, as long as you had the correct like weather related top and bottom, did your socks match no. Did the shorts and shirt match? Also no.
Speaker 2:But you were dressed and you picked it out yourself, fine so, yeah, you know, like I'm I'm starting at 18 months, like, or I think, yeah, at 18 months to four years, you start doing things like you know, like you have two like outfits and say which one do you want? At the age of four, you start having that child like actually pick out the clothing themselves. So you're giving this child like a little bit more responsibility, a little bit more responsibility, a little bit more responsibility, bit more responsibility, a little bit more responsibility, a little bit more responsibility. And the thing is that, as time progresses, like you know, like you're giving this person like leadership, uh, you're giving this person like the ability to, you know, make their own decisions, uh, be able to be comfortable with making decisions. So, actually know what. I'm putting this at death cap, flat out. This cap just because of the fact that, just because of the fact that, like, yeah, you're really fucking with the, the, the, you know kids future by taking away a lot of these, you know boundaries.
Speaker 1:I love how you talked yourself up to that Cause. That's what I'm going to give it. We didn't even have to have that discussion. But yeah, I think you're stunting your child in both cases, for the boy moms and for the girl dads. You're stunting your child emotionally in terms of you're making them this very one-dimensional person who can't think for themselves, who just kind of like exists to do what you want them to do.
Speaker 1:I mean for the mom. You know she, she's created this child who's completely dependent on her. He doesn't know how to cook, he doesn't know how to clean, he doesn't know how to take care of himself. He's not going to stand up for anything against her and be like no, I don't want to do that. He does whatever it is she wants, which is great for her, which is terrible for him because it means he has no say for himself and it means it's terrible for his future family, because if he does end up finally marrying somebody, whether mom likes it or not, this woman now has to deal with it and it means that their children are going to grow up seeing grandma and grandma's like a little crazy. Their children are going to grow up seeing grandma and grandma's like a little crazy.
Speaker 1:And for the girl, dad again, it's also creating this very one dimensional, very feminine, very cute, very, you know flat character of a woman that you know it's what she's supposed to be. And then you, you, you leave it, go off into the world and you never think about creating a woman who can think for herself, who can take care of herself, who's going to stand up for herself. It's just, yeah, it's weird, it's really weird, and I think there are a lot of gross undertones. As you said, Freud is rubbing his little hands together in his grave right now. I don't know why anyone would choose to want to raise a child like this.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But they do. People continue to make that choice to this day. It's like no, I'm going to go there. And again I want to reiterate that just because there's a super toxic side doesn't mean that when you always see boy mom, girl, dad, it is a bad thing. There are plenty of people who use those terms in an appropriate way and use them in a good way. There are lots of dads who are very excited to have daughters. There are lots of moms who are very excited to have boys, and that's fine, that's great. That's not necessarily a bad thing. It's like we were talking about with the gender reveal parties that, to a certain extent, if that's what you want to do, if you want to find out the gender of your baby, you're very excited about it. You want to have a little party not what I would be doing, but within reason it is okay. It's just when you take it 16 steps above that and you're now like exploding shit in the middle of the forest or you're punching decorations because you're so excited or mad about the baby's gender that we have a problem. Those parents are some of the ones who will turn into these parents.
Speaker 1:It starts before the kid is even born, and I mean having met these people in real life I can say it's not fun for the kids. The kid may not be able to fully realize that, and when I say kid, I mean like the children are adults. Now the children are my age and mom or dad is still kind of like this. And you know, in the case of the boy mom, I've watched this person run off multiple girlfriends from her son and I don't know him well enough, multiple girlfriends from her son, and I don't know him well enough. I don't know her well enough definitely to say, you know, were any of these girls you know the one for him or whatever.
Speaker 1:But you notice it's like time and time again you're like, oh, you know, look, I see on Facebook he's got a new girlfriend. Wow, they look like really happy together. And then mom comes in magically and the girlfriend's gone. It's like like what if one of them was right for him? You know he could have already been married, he could be living a very happy life. And you're just like super controlling, you're, you're pushing everyone else out. If you really wanted the best for your child, you would take a step back yeah, many step backs, many step back, please.
Speaker 1:It's from a marathon okay, many step backs, many step back. Please, it's from a marathon, okay? So if you know a boy mom or a girl dad, or if you have any exciting stories to share about your mother-in-law or father-in-law, let's hear some father-in-law hate. You know, it's fair, is fair. You can write to us at toxic, at awesomelifeskillscom. You can also find us on all of the social media.
Speaker 2:We do check it, do we update?
Speaker 1:it Depends on what week it is. We are on Facebook, we are on X, we are on Instagram, we are on TikTok, we are on threads. Also, don't forget to follow us on wherever you're getting your podcasts and leave us a rating. It helps other people find us. Yeah, yeah, so until next week. This has been the toxic cooking show. We'll see you then. Bye.
Speaker 2:Bye.
