Toxic Cooking Show
Misogyny, $800 first dates, simps, and high-value women: Social media has been busy cooking up and feeding us an addictive but toxic slurry of trends over the past few years. Here at The Toxic Cooking Show we're two friends dedicated to breaking down these trends, terms, and taunts into their simplest ingredients to understand where they came from and how they affect our lives. Join us each week as we ponder and discuss charged topics like personal responsibility and "not all men" before placing them on our magical Scale O' ToxicityAny comments or topics you want to hear about write to us at toxic@awesomelifeskills.com
Toxic Cooking Show
Decoding Deception: Navigating Ethics and Credibility in Online Mental Health
Unlock the secrets to discerning fact from fiction in the chaotic realm of online information! Join us as we sit down with Very Special Guest Leslie McClane, LPC, alongside our host Lindsay McClane and co-host Christopher Patchet, LCSW, for a compelling discussion on navigating the ethics of social media content. Leslie, with her vast experience as both a therapist and a college professor, shares invaluable insights on evaluating the credibility of therapeutic advice online. From the subtle dangers of clickbait to identifying ethical versus unethical social media posts, this episode tackles the rising tide of misleading information head-on.
Ever wondered how to spot dubious online figures like the notorious "Dr. Judith"? This episode is your essential guide to assessing the credibility of online sources, particularly in the sensitive area of mental health. We shed light on the ethical responsibilities that mental health professionals carry and the pitfalls of making quick judgments based on superficial social media content. Through real-world examples and the exploration of complex issues like gaslighting, we emphasize the importance of skepticism and careful consideration when navigating the digital landscape.
Dive deep into the manipulative tactics employed by some online content creators and learn how to protect yourself from deceptive information. We uncover the insidious nature of content that captures personal data and the generational differences in technology perception and susceptibility to scams. Reflecting on historical events and their impact on conspiracy theories, we aim to equip our listeners with the critical thinking skills necessary to recognize and combat misinformation. Tune in to become a more informed and discerning digital citizen.
Hi and welcome to the Toxic Cooking Show, where we break down toxic people into their simplest ingredients. I'm your host for this week, lindsay McLean, and with me is my co-host number one.
Speaker 2:Christopher Patchett, LCSW.
Speaker 1:And with me is my co-host number two.
Speaker 3:Oh my God. Hello, I'm your co-host number two. I'm Leslie McLean, LPC, and just happened to be Lindsay's mom.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, I told you I had a surprise.
Speaker 3:Uh-huh, hello, surprise, hello, hello.
Speaker 1:Do you know how hard I work to not say anything about the fact that my mom was coming and the fact that months ago I told her that we hosted this podcast together and that I wanted her to join us for an episode?
Speaker 2:oh my god, because, okay. So, so we do these. Usually we'll record two at a time, and then, when I came on today, I was going to do the episode that I do first, and then Lindsay was like no, no, no, no, I got a surprise, let's do mine first. I'm like okay, okay, pushy, but fine, this is definitely a surprise. You know like, let's do mine first. I'm like okay, okay, Okay, pushy but fine, this is definitely a surprise.
Speaker 3:So, and I actually have somewhere I have to be at a certain point. So that's why she was like, so we have to do this one first.
Speaker 2:Let's go now. Okay, now I'm like twice as much like curious of what we're going to be talking about here.
Speaker 1:So we are going to be talking about. Let me pull up my beautiful notes here. I hope you know I had to make them really big. As a fellow person with glasses, you understand that I usually have the regular size on there and I was showing my mom ahead of time. She was like make them bigger.
Speaker 2:I can't see it. No, make it, no, make it. Can't read the notes, so but before, yeah, I tried doing the uh, I tried doing like the regular notes, uh, like the first uh one that we did, and I was sitting there the entire time being like yeah, and then blah, blah, blah. Yeah, that was one of the first things I learned about when we started doing podcasts.
Speaker 1:So, before we get into the topic, I don't know if you wanted to talk about your background at all or you wish to remain a mystery.
Speaker 3:So I can say a little bit about my background without going into too much detail. Going into too much detail, so I have years of experience as a therapist, doing a lot of individual and group therapy and a lot of crisis response work, and also working as a college professor.
Speaker 1:So I figured that that was especially useful for today's topic, where we're talking about when you see information online, how do I know if it's legit or not? Because that's a common question that I think we've run across with a lot of the media that certainly you and I are talking about on these episodes and just in general, because it's everywhere. It's not just Instagram and TikTok, it's Facebook, it's even legitimate news sources like CNN, the New York Times. Sometimes you're reading the headline and you're like it's a little misleading, it's a little biased. No, don't you guys think so? Yeah, I mean clickbait.
Speaker 1:It's been around for a while, misleading headlines have been around for a while, but I think social media has really just absolutely made it get really bad, because you can create so much stuff and put it out there and other people can. Then you know stitch that you lose all of the background information that maybe the original post had. Maybe the original post didn't have any background information. That certainly happens quite a bit. So you actually had a project that you had your students do for just this past semester. Yes, okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it's a class on ethics and so we were talking about. You know, how can you apply ethics in real life rather than just looking at the theory and case studies? And I said well, you know, there's all this information out there on social media that has to do with helping people, and some of it's ethical and some of it's really unethical. So now's your chance.
Speaker 3:In a small group, you have to find on social media an example of something that you think is either incredibly unethical or incredibly ethical and you have to present it to the class. They had 20 minutes per group to do this and you have to, using the framework of a professional code of ethics, you have to justify is it ethical or is it unethical? And you have to look at who's the source and what do they know about what they're talking about. And you have to generate a discussion in the class to get people to really critically look at this, using that framework of professional ethics, to say is this okay to be putting this out there or do we really need to question this? Students said, hands down, best assignment ever, that it really helped them look at. Oh oh, this is a real problem and to not just say it makes me feel creepy.
Speaker 2:But it's a real problem because and have a way to justify it- yeah, I mean, already going through my head is so many things I have seen that are unethical. And it's funny that you actually just bring this up, because I just saw something yesterday. Because I just saw something yesterday there was a Instagram of a girl she's a life coach. So the difference between a life coach and a therapist is a therapist is going to have like a degree, whether it is a LPC, family or marriage and family therapist, or a lcsw or a psychologist. So therapist is actually going to have a degree. Somebody straight out of high school is able to say that they're a life coach.
Speaker 2:I I started following her originally because she had like one good point and it's one of those things that it's like a broken clock broken clock can't be right twice a twice a day and I saw one of her things pop up the other day. It was she was talking about being at a bar and you know she has her hand over a drink, which is wonderful idea and some guy was talking to her and said like something about how, hey, that's kind of weird that you're having your hand over your eye over your glass like that, like as if I'm gonna do something did you send this one to me, or did I also see this?
Speaker 2:you feel like you said I might have sent this one to you, and she goes, and she goes into about how, uh, she's like, hey, you know, look over there, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then, a few minutes later, like you know, like after he finished his drink, you know, he's like uh, uh, she's like, oh, and, by the way, I poured something in your uh, your glass why you were not looking which she didn't do, but she was trying to teach this person to you know, like, hey, it's Eddie, and it's like, no, you don't. You know, as a therapist, I would never, ever, ever say something like you know, like that's the way to teach somebody. Like, yes, you know, having your hand over your glass, like that, wonderful idea. Teaching a guy is wonderful idea. Putting a person in fear is not a good idea and that would be completely unethical.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's the type of stuff that I just see so much of, and, as you were doing this project with the students, I ruined my Instagram by looking stuff up.
Speaker 1:Every time I saw something bad, like five signs you're dating a narcissist. You know, of course, you click on it and Instagram's like I hear you like narcissists, but it's everywhere and I really think again, social media has just created this monster of it because you have so so many different ways and some are more obvious than others. But, for instance, I mean, one of the things you can really easily look at is like, does this sound too good to be true? And I certainly fell for this. So my parents have a dog who lives life exuberantly Everyone is her friend Fiona's. Just, she has a lot of energy, I would say, to put it nicely, A little too much energy sometimes. And I saw a video about somebody who showed their puppy, you know, bouncing around. They're like, oh, and then I gave them these like calming treats and it shows the puppy just like completely zonked out, With, of course, Shaggy's like if I got high.
Speaker 2:Because I got high. I got high. Oh, what's the?
Speaker 1:okay, uh, because I got high, because I got shaggy it's um afro man, yeah, you know and that's playing in the background and I was like you know what? I found these treats at walmart. It's like 10 bucks, let's try. It didn't do anything and she ate them.
Speaker 3:They were delicious, I guess, but she said they were tasty and give me more.
Speaker 1:I mean, even that's one of those things like it's so easy to misrepresent to and maybe truly for that dog. That's what happened, but all you're seeing are these convenient little clips stitched together and one shows bouncy, one shows here's dog eating treat and one shows puppy, just high out of its mind, passed out. Those could have been taken on completely different days, and I know I'm definitely guilty of falling for that and being like, look, but they're all together in one video. It must be true. And then, of course, I mean there's the obvious one too, that you have to ask yourself who posted it. And, if I may, the boomers are really bad. You have done this to me at least once. It's been a while Back. You know, if I send you a meme or something, be like oh, do you know this person? Who is you know? And they list off the username. Who is you know? And they list off the username.
Speaker 1:I think you only did that once or twice and then you picked up that these were not people that I actually knew. But I mean, who is this person who is posting it? Who is this group that is posting it? Do you know them? Are they trustworthy? Do they have accreditation? Do they have the right accreditation? Are they using that accreditation properly? So I think one of the examples I first sent you was go Dr Judith. Yes, have you seen her stuff?
Speaker 3:No I haven't, you don't want to see, to see her stuff oh god she is somebody who has some type of degree?
Speaker 1:um, she can legitimately call herself doctor. Um, she does some type of therapy work? Um, I'm not entirely sure, and you know she makes these little skits talking about stuff, and I think the one that I sent you because it was really not good, was her showing like oh, you can tell what problems the person has the office late and with a coffee, they must have adhd.
Speaker 2:they walk in with like a hoodie pulled down over their face and you know, looking kind of glum, they must be depressed yeah, there, I mean there, there's a whole code of ethics for like all across the board, and one of them is like, when talking like politics and things like that, and and they'll say like you know, like, hey, what do you think that this person has? And anybody who is a therapist will usually say something along the lines of well, they're not my client, I can't diagnose them. So I mean, you know. So if somebody is watching a five second video and saying like oh, they had their hoodie down and therefore they're there, it a five second video and saying like oh, they had their hoodie down and therefore their their.
Speaker 3:I mean that right there, right off the bat, would be like red flags. However, a lot of people don't get that, particularly people who are thinking about coming into the field and they go oh yeah, that's a great way to figure out what's going on with somebody. Pay attention to their body language.
Speaker 1:And I'm sure it is something that you guys do pay attention to how the client comes in, how they're acting, but I would imagine that patches you don't every time you have a new client that you're not analyzing for the first five seconds. Okay, you know what I'm going to charge you for the first five seconds. Okay, you know what I'm going to charge you for the whole hour. However, I've already made my diagnosis based off of the first two minutes that you walked in here. I mean, that would be a great way to add more clients. If you only need two minutes per client, then right. Well, maybe you could like shove into an hour and still charge them the whole rate.
Speaker 2:Next you have ADHD, next OCD.
Speaker 1:Next See, we always talk about how therapists don't make enough money.
Speaker 2:This is the key to solving that issue. So, like one of the things like okay, I tell people that, you know, that's as one of the first of that's. One of the problems with like the mind is that we try to put things in the nice, neat little boxes. But we are not boxes and I tell people all the time that like okay, so you know, let's say you're, let's say you're 19 and you're texting somebody. You're, you know, calling them and all of a sudden they become more and more distant. A couple of weeks later you find out that you know they're not calling back, they're not texting back, they're becoming more distant. You know you're not hanging out and three weeks later you find out that they were cheating.
Speaker 2:And then fast forward like 10 years later you're dating somebody for six months. All of a sudden they're not calling back, they're not texting back, they're becoming more distant. And then your mind goes straight to they're cheating on me. Well, that's also. You know the symptoms of depression and you know that person could be feeling depressed. But I mean, if you see these like little, like key notes, and going straight to, they're cheating on me. That's why you can't buy notes in the first five seconds.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think, again, social media, because it's these really short clips. It's essentially forcing that to happen. You know, if you've only got 30 seconds to try and explain what gaslighting is, I mean, we've done a whole episode on gaslighting because people get it wrong all of the time I can't tell you how many examples of stuff I've seen. I think I've sent to you on Instagram that are you know these old like infographics? Or you know a short video about you know what is gaslighting? And if you've been gaslit, how can you tell? How can you get past it? And it's really just meant to draw you in and so it highlights a single little point. But then people are like it me, it's me, I've been, I've been gaslit. No, you just got lied to. Lying is part of gaslighting, but it is not the same thing as gaslighting and that that's one of the things we it weakens those words yes, it does.
Speaker 1:Yep, so, yeah, you know, you always have to be watching out for, like, who is this person and how are they? Are they using the language? Are they even supposed to be using? Do they know how to use it? Maybe, maybe not. Just because they have that doctor in front of their name does not mean that you can actually, unfortunately, trust them. And then, of course, there's the stuff that's just straight up lies. As somebody, of course, who studies Russian, who is interested in Russian history and culture, and all of that, I do subscribe on Telegram to multiple propaganda channels. Now, officially they're news channels.
Speaker 2:So there's propaganda channels in Russia.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no no.
Speaker 2:I mean, I've always thought like completely, 100%, legit.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Okay okay, sorry, yeah, that was my mistake there, but those they're really insidious.
Speaker 1:And my favorite thing about them and we do this in the West too, to be clear, but my favorite thing is I'll get a notification Like somebody in the U? S was shot and you're like, oh, oh, no, and it's, it's the most benign story. They haven't even picked like a real, you know school shooting or something like that, but they're just handpicking anything bad that comes out of the us and that's like the, the urgent news that I literally get a push notification for that they feel like I need to know and like, yes, that is true, but you are manipulating the information and you are using it to create this idea that the US they're just shootings every day and fires every day and everything is just burning and being shot to pieces at any given second. It's like, no, no, I don't think so. And then I mean, the other thing you should also be checking for, of course, is sources and all of this.
Speaker 1:So you and I found a video, maybe a year ago, that we were looking at and it was a pediatrician. I think I should have tried to refine it, but I didn't want to watch his video again and he was talking about diagnosing someone. He was talking about.
Speaker 3:ADHD I think that's the one I'm thinking of of and talking about how to diagnose them. And of course, as we know, that's one of those that it's a little more complicated because you've got to have different sources of information. You can't just rely on one person. So you've got to have information from the school How's the child doing there? You've got to have information from the home How's the child doing there? You've got to have information from the home How's the child doing there? Information from what the pediatrician has observed what are they doing there and then again pulling all of that together to get the complete picture so that if somebody is under reporting, somebody else is over reporting, you can get that balance reporting somebody else is over reporting.
Speaker 2:You can get that balance and you know so like that. That's why the, the, the dsm, is like this big, thick, monstrous book is because it is very exact, like you know. Um, you know, just like you said, like a kid could show all the symptoms, like every single symptom of ADHD at school. But it specifically says in the DSM that the kid has to show them in more than one place, so either at school and at home, at school with the personal life and things like that with friends. So yeah, you can't just say like, well, I as a teacher see this and therefore you know Johnny has ADHD.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but no, no. I saw a video on Instagram that said if you like to make little noises to yourself at home, you have ADHD. And I like to make little noises to yourself at home, you have ADHD, and I like to make little noises to myself at home. Therefore, right. So, actually, one person in particular who I finally blocked on Instagram because their videos kept coming up, it's the Australian guy Colby Colby Music something you have seen him, I promise, and he does these videos about. You know, like having ADHD, but it's everything. It's every symptom. It's like the T-Rex arms is ADHD.
Speaker 2:It's also depression and autism yeah, it's amazing, like you know, like I even like, even when, like I I've seen like somebody like saying, like you know, um, these are the signs of, you know, narcissism, and, and they might quote the dsm, um, but the same thing is, is that I mean there are multiple sections in the DSM. For each symptom, you know that they have to observe, uh like, a certain amount from this cluster. A certain amount from this cluster. Yeah, it's more complex than a five second video.
Speaker 1:Yep, and that's the last question that I've always try and ask myself. I'll admit I'm not always good about doing this, but what is the point of of the person posting this? Because we all know nothing is free, like everything in life has to cost something. Whether you're paying with your attention, whether you're paying with your data, whether you're paying with money, somebody is always getting something from you and I think people forget about that a lot on social media because you see they've listed as oh, this is an ad. You know I'm hawking this product here as an influencer. Okay, I can easily identify that and you've been forced to by law, say that this is what I'm doing.
Speaker 1:But there's so many others we mentioned this on our Trad Wives episode that they reel you in with. You know the cute videos, the cute little infographics that I want to live this life. You know, yes, this feels like me. And then you know you're reading through the stuff and you're like, if you want to find out more, comment help and I'll send you my free ebook. Or you know, I'll send you the link to this, or you can, you know, click the link in my bio to download the information sheet to fill out to track your emotions.
Speaker 1:You were being bought. That's what's going on there. These people are posting stuff to reel you in and make you feel like, yes, this is me, yes, I was dating a narcissist. Oh my God, what do I do now? Now I've realized, quote unquote, that that's who my ex was and that's who my mother was and my father, oh my God, everyone in my family is a narcissist. What do I do? Help, I'm terrified. But look, here's this for $199 or it's free, but you now have my email address. You now have my information.
Speaker 2:You got to love it, I love it.
Speaker 1:They're also the more. I don't know if they're actually more benign, I'd say they're worse. I think I told you about this at one point. You were horrified because we have a relative who is completely clueless about these. You know those posts on Facebook where they're like you know, make your stripper name, comment below the name of your childhood pet and the you know name of the first street you lived on. It's like those are security questions. Yes, and now you, joe schmo, with your facebook, with your photo, have just put this information out publicly. She has answered a couple of those. You've got to stop.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mom, I love you, but my mom is that relative. I had to sit down. I had to give her a huge course of like you know, like anything that you see. Like you know, like any text that you see, or anything like that. If it's not from somebody you know, you don't click on the link, you don't call them back. They say they're Bank of America. You look online and you get the number from there. So you know, yeah, I used to have a full head of hair until my mom got a cell phone.
Speaker 2:But, does your mom use the upside down?
Speaker 1:smiley face in place of a regular smiley face.
Speaker 2:It's okay. No, no, no, my mom does the group chat talking to one person.
Speaker 1:I guess you know we all have our faults. Technology is hard, I get it. So my last favorite example for why you have to be really careful about looking at who is posting it and what they want to get from you. You do, you know. Five minute craft no, I don't you do, I promise you do.
Speaker 1:You know, blossom, you have seen these horrific no, no, no. You know the videos on instagram or youtube or facebook where it's like the, the cut off hands, just kind of doing something. It's like, oh no, my glasses don't fit, oh yes. And they do this bizarre like cut up the pool noodle. Use a whole bunch of hot glue to do this.
Speaker 2:The ones that like captivate you, that you know that you're never, because you've never done any type of craft, but yet, for some odd reason, you're watching the entire thing, because what if, one of these days?
Speaker 1:Exactly, and you know sure, If my sunglasses break, what do I do? I don't actually carry around a hot glue gun and glue sticks and pool noodles and God knows what else with me at all times.
Speaker 2:How do you not carry this around?
Speaker 1:Good point, good point, I guess I should start. But you know so, magically you can have all that, but you don't have any pair of sunglasses. They and I think you've seen some of these videos too, I'm sure just kind of it's going. They're very brightly colored. They really are the epitome of just trash and you're never going to use it, but you get drawn in. That's Russian propaganda. Did you know that?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they got busted a couple years ago because, in the background of some of the videos they were showing, there'd be like a map of the world, as you might have, except, you know, it would show stuff like Crimea being part of Russia.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, going for the subliminals, as you might have, except it would show stuff like Crimea being part of.
Speaker 1:Russia, oh Wow.
Speaker 2:Going for the subliminals.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it can even be some of this stuff when you're just like this is a harmless video. This is not convincing someone. Their entire family is narcissistic and out to get them. That's bad, don't get me wrong, but this is just a little harmless video. No, it's not. This is also bad because you are now subconsciously seeing this and seeing crimea being the same being russia.
Speaker 2:It's been included wow yep wow, that that's actually. You know what I hate to say. I give them props like they built up that empire.
Speaker 1:They built it up very slowly and carefully for years, creating this like people. Ah, you know, I love five minute crafts, I love blossom, and then it was just like oh, whoopsies, how'd that get in there? So I know you do have Instagram, mom, but you don't. You use it mainly when I send you cute animal memes or trash memes as your child. That's what I do.
Speaker 3:And to look at other things occasionally but, not not my primary source of entertainment.
Speaker 1:But of course you also have Facebook. How often would you say that you see information that you would question, like any of this stuff, that if you really looked and said who's posting it, why are they posting it, what are they trying to get, at that you would get undesirable answers undesirable answers?
Speaker 3:Probably, unless I go into Facebook for something very specific and that's what I'm looking for, maybe what somebody's posted, or I'm going in to message somebody through Facebook, then I'm not. I'm in and out. But if I'm not doing that, if it's oh, let me just scroll through my feed. Every single time. I will see videos of things, and you're right. There are the what appear to be innocuous, easy crafts that you can do.
Speaker 1:Yep, little things like that. I know obviously Patches, you see that a lot because we sit with each other sometimes.
Speaker 1:I know, obviously patches, you see that a lot because we sit with each other sometimes. But I mean, would you consider you and I I think have disagreed a little bit on this those videos like the call out videos and stuff like that? Would you put this in that as, like this is potentially misrepresenting stuff? So to explain to you, mom, sometimes there will be videos where somebody says I hate dogs, dogs are the worst, get rid of all the dogs. And so somebody will come in and stitch that video and be like, oh, look at this person. You know they said blah, blah, blah. That's true, that's not true. Sometimes people will, if somebody has left a comment, they will call them out about it, like go to their profile, looking for this information, because to me I think that is adjacent to this stuff, because you don't know the whole story. You've just got this little video and they're showing you the snippets of it and then they're commenting on what they think the person was saying. I know you like them sometimes, which is why I ask.
Speaker 2:So, okay, it depends, I mean it's, and and this is kind of one of the things that that I tend to disagree with on a lot of your call out videos as a whole is the fact that, like all or nothing, thinking, you know, like a lot of people will say all men do this or all you know, like women do this, or you know if, if you're calling out on a certain group, you know, I, I think I really hate that if they're calling out on a certain comment, it depends on how obvious the comment is.
Speaker 2:I mean, there are some things that you just don't say because you just don't say but yeah, I mean it's, it's really hard to really gauge on things because of the fact that, just as you said, you don't know the whole story. I mean, I love this example of you know, like communication wise, uh, I love the example of I didn't say she took my money. And it's seven words, same. Or, and you can say I didn't say she took my money. I didn't say she took my money, I didn't say she. You know, and each, if you emphasize a different word, you have seven completely different meaning sentences based off of seven words that are in the same order. It's just what are you emphasizing.
Speaker 1:No, it's true, and you completely miss, I think, a lot of that nuance and I think people don't want to see it. Certainly, my take for stuff that I see online and even stuff, for instance, in like a neighborhood Facebook page, that people, people see what they want to see in somebody's comment and they go from there and then the next person sees what they want to see and is that the original posters fault Sometimes, sometimes not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if, if you're, if you're commenting on a comment of a comment, of a comment, you know it becomes a game of telephone.
Speaker 1:So a question for you and then for you. So we're going to get the, I guess the boomer and the gin Alpha.
Speaker 3:No, you still got Gen Z as students, I think, so I may have some alpha.
Speaker 1:When was? Our alpha is 2013. I think you don't have alpha yet. When?
Speaker 2:was alpha.
Speaker 1:Alpha is 2013. Yeah, alpha is. I think you don't have alpha yet. They're coming.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It would still be the Gen Z that sounds horrible.
Speaker 2:That sounds horrible. The alphas are, they're coming, they are.
Speaker 3:They are, but do you think that you see more misinformation, disinformation, amongst people?
Speaker 3:Your a really broad range of ages, because it encompassed a large period of time, but I think that people in my generation are probably a little more gullible. We're still a little more trusting than your generation, for instance, and again, being careful not to overgeneralize and go everybody is this, but I think we are far more likely to fall victim to a scam than you are, whether it's a telephone scam or an email scam, whether it's a telephone scam or an email scam. And so it's maybe not so much that we are putting disinformation out there, but we are probably more susceptible to it. And I think, in terms of the students that I work with, I would say that they are probably more savvy about a lot of things. They're more technologically savvy because they've grown up with it. They've grown up with smartphones, they have been exposed more to, oh, the evils of the internet and you have to be able to figure out is this okay or is this not okay? So I think they hold a real advantage because of those experiences.
Speaker 1:So what about good old Gen X? We used to play outside until the sun went down.
Speaker 2:So okay. So I look at this way, like I think the boomers are actually okay. So I think it's kind of one of these type of scales where as one goes down, the other goes up. So I think that boomer generation is more trusting and everything like that, but is also more informed in the in the idea of like factual information, so, like one of the things seeing the thing about how it wasn't until 9-11.
Speaker 2:9-11 became your first like huge conspiracy theories. You had loose change where, if you don't know about that, it was like a, a video that was going around um, shortly after 9-11. It was showing about how this is where, like a lot of these theories, of steel doesn't melt at this uh temperature and you know the world trade timer couldn't have fallen down from you know the jet fuel and there were booms that were heard throughout the the you know world trade timer before it came down. That that was based off of this video and the thing was is like internet, like my, my parents, uh, so my, my mom was born in 40, 43, my dad was born in 45, uh, so when it came to new technology, my house was probably one of the last ones to get like that new technology.
Speaker 2:So it was like one of these things like uh, internet first started really kind of coming around, maybe like 96, 97, but like our house, we had it in 2000, and so 9-11 was the first big thing, like after like the internet. Like really, you know, like uh took off, uh, and that was like the first instance of you know um large-scale conspiracies. So that's where I kind of say, like you know, like the, the kind of trade-off of you know, like the boomers are more factually informed but since they are more trusting, they are less scam informed versus where the later end of Gen X and forward is more or is less factually informed and more scam wise.
Speaker 1:I can see it because I think millennials are kind of the same too, where we're in a weird spot and and gen z I hate to lump us in the same category as tide pods, but you know, you know people know to look for. You know who is the source like. If it's a newspaper, you're like this is good newspaper, this is bad newspaper, like I think we're good at that. But somehow then we get on the internet and it's like but the narcissists? I just I can't tell you how much I see about narcissism online these days when I don't want to, but there's so much of it out there and clearly it's because people are clicking on it, they're looking at it and it's this idea of well, but I saw it here and I saw this infographic about it and I think you know people are worried, they don't understand. They're like why did? Why did I get ghosted? Why did this happen? And so you're looking for a reason and somehow, if it comes from Instagram, it must be true.
Speaker 1:I don't know why we do that, but I just I see a lot of people my age reposting stuff or liking stuff. It's like if you spent five seconds looking at this, I think you would probably understand that. You know five signs he's micro flirting with you, really, really. I can see that you've liked this post. Come on, I'm gonna stage an intervention here. But somehow that feels real to us and, as a result, it just it allows this misinformation to just keep spreading and it opens the door, too, for people to take advantage of you if you're already in this vulnerable spot and you're like but is he flirting with me? Is he interested?
Speaker 1:It does seem like the five signs of micro-flirting are true. What is micro-flirting? I don't know. That's never been explained to me, despite all the posts I looked at about micro-flirting to see if I could understand micro flirting, to see if I could understand why. These are the five signs Not clear that that we're we're totally okay with, and I think that then, if you have somebody who uses that, they can a la five minute crafts, suck you in and then be like whoops just going to put this little disinformation up in the corner here. Oh, no, crimea.
Speaker 2:Russia, of course. Now, when was the last time you know, lindsay? When was the last time that you picked up a newspaper? When was the last time that you actually watched actual news?
Speaker 1:Uh, so I do on my phone. I do read the New York Times, but a physical newspaper has probably been years Plural.
Speaker 2:Mom same question.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we stopped getting physical newspapers several years ago. So I read our local newspaper, local daily, online. Most days I read bits of the New York Times online. We'll occasionally read some other newspapers online, but not the physical picking up the paper. Sometimes I don't know. Are these online articles legit? It says it's coming from the Marietta Daily Journal, but maybe it's not.
Speaker 2:I mean I know like I'll read like an article here and there on the Times, but I won't actually go through it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I pick what's interesting, I'll be honest, unless I'm desperate and I'm sitting on the Metro and like absolutely bored and you're like what's this article here?
Speaker 2:But Okay, so when was the last time that you read a informational book, not like book for pleasure, but like something like you know, like, actually reading like, like something like you know, like, uh, actually reading like, I mean, um, you know something informational um, definitely very recently, of course.
Speaker 1:Um, um, can I pass? I've, I've read books, but purely for pleasure. Okay, take one for the team you know, help us out here.
Speaker 3:You've read something useful, yeah so so I've actually read several books this year, not Not recently, but these were not even on my phone. These were actual copies of the books Read several this year.
Speaker 2:You know, when it comes to like. You know, like, like search work and things like that, purely based off books, because like, yeah, I mean, if you're, if I'm going to get my information off of you know, like Cutie Pie or something like that.
Speaker 1:You pronounced it correctly.
Speaker 2:I'm so proud of you, hey you know what, after finding out where he is nowadays, I'm glad I don't know who that was this is true, you know a lot of people are getting their information, you know, like, off of. You know what is narcissism like? Yeah, you know, like I said, I you know sometimes they're listing like things on the dsm, so on the surface level it looks legit but, um, you know, unless you're actually looking in information, you know like, yeah, well, unless you're even using it correctly.
Speaker 1:Because you and I also at some point found a video of some doctor again, they had qualifications and he was talking about some studies that had been done and just making some kind of wild claims. And I think between the two of us we spent over an hour tracking down these studies from what he had listed and then had to Google stuff and found part of it and then that was an article and from the article found a link to another article and from that article found a link to the study. And then you still had to go into the study and actually scroll down and use your non-existent math skills to understand what was written there. And you're like, looking at the tables and some of what he had said was true. I don't remember what exactly this was about.
Speaker 1:Unfortunately, some of it was not, some of it was an exaggeration, like oh you, you're, you know, seven times more likely to be depressed, or something like that. And when you looked at the actual numbers it was like but it's not, that was a very specific subset that had, you know, dealt with childhood abuse and this, and that it was like when you ticked boxes A, B, C, D, E, F, G, then you were seven times more likely. But you're representing it as if you tick any of the boxes, even just one. You are seven times more likely, or whatever it was, to be depressed. And it's not true. And you should know that as a doctor. And it's not true. And you should know that as a doctor, you should be able if me, who failed math twice in high school, can figure that out, you know it's bad. So where do you see this going Question for both of you. Do you see it getting better? Do you see it getting worse? Is there anything that could be done to other than deleting Instagram off of everyone's phones?
Speaker 3:So I mean, one of the phrases that's kicked around a lot in education these days is critical thinking and the idea of teaching people how to take in information and examine it and decide how much of this is worthwhile, how much of this is applicable to me, how much of this is realistic, does it fit with my knowledge about the world in general? Does it fit with my knowledge about this topic specifically? And so I think, with that in mind, helping people learn how to utilize critical thinking to be able to look at something and not just accept it wholesale oh, yeah, well, it's, you know, dr. So-and-so Well, what does the doctor in front of their name mean?
Speaker 3:You know, is this a self-imposed title? Did you get a doctorate in English literature? Yeah, or, you know, is it like Dr J, the basketball player? You know his name? So yeah, and so what's the basis of that? What's the basis of you know? What credentials do you have to be able to say this? And then, even just looking at it from the standpoint of what does this feel like to me? Does something feel off about it and if so, why? What feels off and how can I investigate further?
Speaker 1:Fake dad since we've had mom. Fake dad since we've had mom I.
Speaker 2:So I think that you know, I, I agree with you. I think that, um, I think that this is definitely something that should go into either, should be taught like all throughout, like grade school, elementary, uh, high school, I mean, um, we can replace typing class at this point. You know, I don't know too many people who don't know how to type by the age of like two. You know, and I remember, you know, we had to take a class in college and we went to the library and it was, you know, learning to look at the citations and things, and one of the examples that the librarian gave us was martinlutherkingorg, and you know it was like, okay, you know, org organization. You know it was like, okay, you know, dot org organization now looks legitimate, uh, until you look at the very bottom where it is like, you know, like, uh, something thunder or stormtroopers or something like that, which is a white supremacist group that is what the page is ran by. Oh, that's fun. So, obviously, like you know, white supremacist group, having a page of martinluthergameorg is not going to be exactly like non-biased or factual, really. So, like I think, like you know, like being able to, you know, critical thinking, uh, and I think it's.
Speaker 2:I'm kind of worried because I think it's going to be worse before it gets better. You know, I think that you know, unfortunately, like right now, even if we started right now, we're waiting 20 years for that group to enter into the mainstream and it's yeah, so there are solutions. But, unfortunately, the people who are currently in the depth of it as of right now, um, those are the, those are the people that are the problem, like you know, like, oh, I already know this information, because life coach, uh, you know, tiffany, you know, said that this is uh what it is, and if she's a life coach, then you know, she knows, uh, you know her stuff and stuff, and it's like no, there's a reason why she's saying the life coach, not a therapist, like yeah, it's like all the people on the internet who they're super fit and they're like do these three easy exercises to snatch your waist and build your glutes?
Speaker 1:like, yeah, I'm sure you do do those exercises, in addition to about 20 other different ones that you actually do at the gym with real weights, which is why you look like this and that's why you, instead of being an actual personal trainer at the gym, you're on Instagram making videos, because you don't actually know how to coach clients. You know how to do this to yourself, or you were genetically blessed and so you just look really good and you were going to use that, and if people saw you in real life, they might be like, I don't know, man, I feel like something's off here, like now that the filter isn't there to snatch in the waist a little more untrustworthy.
Speaker 1:So, on our scale of toxicity, where would both of you rank this? Is this a green potato? Um, and this meaning false information online and people's ability to differentiate between. Is this legit, is this not legit, legit and how trustworthy is it? Because of course, it's not just black and white. It's not a hard quote. It is true or it is false. Obviously, there's many different variations in between. Is this whole problem a green potato? It will make you sick if you eat it, but not going to die. Is this a death cap mushroom 50 50 chance of dying even if it is cooked? Or is this antifreeze, a delicious but deadly last snack when mixed with lime jello patches? What do you think? Put you on the spot first?
Speaker 2:I would have to say this is death cap, concerning the fact that, uh, concerning the fact that we are, you know, like the, the one that I was saying about earlier, where you know, like freaking out a total guy or a guy just to teach him a lesson, you know you're, you're playing with somebody's emotions, you're playing with their, their head.
Speaker 2:Actually, you know what I I'm going to have to put this up there because, on what it's used for, I would have to say, hi, deathcap, deathcap Plus, because you know, like, in that example, you're playing, you know, and also, this guy who could be on the verge of, you know like, hating women, and you know like, could be the the tipping point for that person.
Speaker 2:I think that you know, uh, especially like you know people who are, you know, because we all want to have answers, uh, we all want to be able to like, you know like, and if I, you know, if you're kind of sitting there and, uh, you don't have good focus and all of a sudden you're hearing all these things. So these are the signs of ADHD and they're like, very generic, like you know, like symptoms. Now, this person's, you know, taking away the focus, of trying to question and putting it to like, okay, I have the answer, let me find this, you know, solution to this answer, and you know that's kind of taken away from like okay, you know, another thing that is going to cause somebody to lose focus is also depression, you know. So if you're now like going further and further into like depression or something like that and putting all of your time and energy into ADHD, well that's taken away from going to a therapist and actually seeing somebody. About getting the answers to something that's more feasible.
Speaker 1:I can see that.
Speaker 3:Mom, how would you rate this? It as a death cap, because there are a lot of examples out there that are pretty benign, where people are giving bad information but nobody's going to be hurt by it.
Speaker 3:People may be offended by it, but that's going to be the extent of it, but there are the instances where they're talking about things that are really serious matters, and so, if they convince you, you only have this with you if you meet these criteria. Well, those may not be the right criteria, and so, again, the person may not get the treatment that they need, whether it's for mental health or physical health, and if they're giving bad information, and doing it with such an authoritative manner, it can be hard for people to ignore, and I think there's the potential for people to be seriously hurt, particularly people who are desperately seeking something and are unwilling, unable to go to a reliable source a therapist, a medical doctor, whoever it would be and they're trying to get to whatever is going on. Well, this is it, I've found it, and it's not it. Then, the lack of treatment, or the whatever treatment that they opt to get, based on this, could be really dangerous, could be harmful for them.
Speaker 1:I debated if I could try and spin this as an antifreeze just to create problems, but I don't think I can, which is probably a good thing. I think it is. I think it is a death cap, like both of you said, a high death cap. It's maybe a couple of death cap mushrooms mixed in to your pizza, because, yeah, there's plenty of stuff, like with the calming chews that we got for Fiona the dog, where it's like you know what she thought they were tasty. It didn't do anything to calm her down.
Speaker 1:But no harm, no foul, okay, but there's so much of it that can lead to really, really nasty stuff, where we talk about this, probably about every other episode, that all it takes is for somebody to be in a not good place feeling good, or I'm kind of, you know, feeling like I'm angry at men or women and you see one of these videos that puts all of this blame on somebody and that kind of pushes you over there. You see this video, like you said, of the woman. You said, oh, I put something in your drink and you were already mad at women. You're like see all women, they're manipulative, they're going to do this to you, they're going to lie, they think it's funny and it's all it takes. Is that one thing that kind of pushes you over?
Speaker 1:And there is stuff that can be dangerous to your health. The whole fitness side, the whole wellness side of the internet. That's like message me or DM me and I'll send you 10 healthy smoothies that will cure your adrenal fatigue. What is this? You've just made up this idea. Toxins, toxins, everywhere. I'll get my great toxin burner drink recipe. You don't have toxins in you. If you had toxins in your body, we have bigger issues. You don't have toxins in your. If you had toxins in your body, we have bigger issues and that can lead to very serious health problems, eating disorders. It can lead to death in some cases. So yeah, I think, until people learn how to properly analyze and not just learn how but actually then use it on the regular, which is hard, I get- it.
Speaker 1:It's tough times.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it wouldn't be.
Speaker 2:It's like 90%, but nine is just a. Is a 10% that really?
Speaker 3:brings it up to yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so if you have ever seen something on Instagram that you thought was sketchy, you can send it to us. We have Instagram. We have X. X has so much sketchy stuff on there. Please don't send it to us there. We see enough on our own Facebook email threads. We've got most of the social medias. We would love to hear from you all there if you have any experiences with this. Of course, our email address is toxic at awesome life skillscom and until next week, we'll see you then. Bye.
Speaker 2:Bye.
