Toxic Cooking Show
Misogyny, $800 first dates, simps, and high-value women: Social media has been busy cooking up and feeding us an addictive but toxic slurry of trends over the past few years. Here at The Toxic Cooking Show we're two friends dedicated to breaking down these trends, terms, and taunts into their simplest ingredients to understand where they came from and how they affect our lives. Join us each week as we ponder and discuss charged topics like personal responsibility and "not all men" before placing them on our magical Scale O' ToxicityAny comments or topics you want to hear about write to us at toxic@awesomelifeskills.com
Toxic Cooking Show
Beyond the Jackpot: Gender, Money, and Marital Fates
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Why do women double their chances of divorce after winning the lottery, while men are 30% more likely to tie the knot?" Join us as we dig into the surprising and often overlooked effects of financial windfalls on relationships. We explore the statistics and discuss the emotional disconnect that can arise when men focus on material fulfillment at the expense of their relationships. This episode kicks off with a thought-provoking video and an engaging discussion about the different marital outcomes for lottery winners based on gender.
Plus, we brainstorm actionable solutions for addressing gender inequalities at work, emphasizing the importance of salary transparency and supportive men advocating for their female colleagues. This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to understand and navigate the complex landscape of gender dynamics in both their personal and professional lives.
Hi and welcome to Toxic Cooking Show, where we break down toxic people to their simplest ingredients. I'm your host, christopher Patch Patchett, and here with me is my lovely co host.
Speaker 2Lindsay McLean.
Speaker 1So last week we left off. We were talking about how women-dominated jobs are getting paid a fuck ton less than male-dominated jobs and I kind many jobs. And I kind of left off with the quote of couples who win big on the lottery uh-huh women are twice as like likely to get divorced and men are wait.
Speaker 2Who won the money? But we just know it was the couple.
Speaker 1Well, so in in a marriage, like doesn't matter who wins the, the, the lottery, that lottery money is going to be split. Okay, you know per, per divorce. You know like, uh, so you're already, you already know that half that, uh, half that money is going to go to him, half of it's going to go to her. Men are 30 more likely to get married after winning the lottery, mm-hmm. So now you have a system where women who are saying like you know, like I've been wanting to get divorced and I couldn't yeah, because I didn't have the financial means Right Now.
Speaker 2I can.
Speaker 1Now I can, it's great. And now you have this guy who's been single, who all of a sudden looks more attractive.
Speaker 2Or maybe he's just like yeeting money out at people and that's why he gets married.
Speaker 1What do you mean by yeeting out money?
Speaker 2I mean, you know, he's come upon this cash and he is spending it in such a way as to get a woman to attract her attention, now that he has money it's probably not women, just like you know, like watching the news and seeing who the next lottery winner is.
Speaker 1But, yeah, you know, all of a sudden, this guy is like you know, like, oh my God, I got like a shit ton of money, like I can buy the new car, I can buy the house I have wanted, I can, you know, do all these you know awesome things that I've been wanting to do. And, yeah, you're going to come across as you know, somebody with money. Yeah, so you know again, that person who was single now all of a sudden is getting all this attraction by women and they're 30% more likely to become married within 10 years of winning the lottery.
Speaker 2Were there by any chance? Were there statistics about single women? Single women speak English. Who won the lottery?
Speaker 1I didn't see anything. I didn't look up on single women. So the information I looked up, it was through a Swedish study and it just went through married couples and it just kind of said that women are twice as likely to get divorced, whereas men will try to save the marriage, or single men who win the lottery are 30% more likely to get married within 10 years.
Speaker 2Yeah, I'm looking it up now and they all seem to be citing the same study. So I'm guessing that there isn't any information, and that may partially be because I would imagine that men are more likely to play the lottery than women. I don't know, Don't quote me on that.
Speaker 1I don't know. I mean, if you're kind of looking at the study with this, then you know you're having women who are more likely to get divorced. Then I would guess that the chances are that single women who win the lottery are just like fuck it, you know, like I don't need to get married and just yeah, yeah, it could be.
Speaker 2I was just curious if there was anything that had been done that mentioned single women, in that case, to compare to the single men.
Speaker 1But I guess not yeah, well, yeah, I, I guess it's. Uh, I mean, I guess the way that they figured out the 30% is they just kind of did a general poll or study altogether and they just didn't see much of a change. Of single women.
Speaker 2Could be. There wasn't enough statistically to mention anything.
Speaker 1Yeah, who knows? Kind of going off that, there's a video that I saw and it was a cartoon there was no words or anything. It was basically a video that was posted on I. I really wish I would have saved it and and sent it to you, but it was basically the woman going like I want a house and the man saying you know okay. Woman saying you know I want kids and I saying okay, and then you know, it's actually at least Gen Z wise.
Speaker 2It's the men who want kids more than women want them.
Speaker 1Who cares about Gen Z?
Speaker 2It's a good point. I stand corrected.
Speaker 1This is also the generation that was eating Tide Pods.
Speaker 2And the generation that doesn't know how to make hearts with their hands.
Speaker 1Oh God.
Speaker 2What is this? You got the index finger, that's the the top, and then the middle finger has to like yeah, just there you go nice and simple.
Speaker 1So much easier. But I mean, okay, so even with Gen Z, gen Z is just entering that age of, you know, getting married. So they're what? 26 now.
Speaker 2I think the oldest are yeah, it's like 26 or 27. Somewhere around there Late 20s, Mid to late 20s.
Speaker 1Okay. So they're just entering that, that age of getting married. So the majority of people who are married or are about to get married are still going to be millennials and generation x, uh, going through their second or third marriage by now or, as I've seen a couple times, fourth or fifth or even sixth marriage. With the video you have, I, I went to a house I want the kids man saying okay, and then the man, the.
Speaker 1The next thing is the man is working and the guy is working and working, working, and all of a sudden, now, this woman is not getting the attention that that she wants, because he's working extra hard for this house and we're working hard for provide for the kids. And all of a sudden, you know, here's a message, uh, from some guy, facebook, and she's like I'm married, but you can come over for some tea or whatever and we'll just hang out. And then the next thing is they're hooking up and then the woman's yelling at the guy saying you know, this is all your fault because you never gave me attention. And now they're getting.
Speaker 2This feels very Andrew Tate.
Speaker 1Oh God, yeah, yeah, this is very, very, very.
Navigating Relationship Dynamics and Gender Roles
Speaker 2Like it's playing on men's heart that all they do is work, work, work and like where is their woman Because they've worked? She should be there waiting at home for them yeah, I mean definitely.
Speaker 1The video is is 100. I saw it on our when going through our our instagram page, since the algorithm is more towards that type of stuff I'm so glad we did that so it's not like all the crap isn't on my personal algorithm anymore. However, yeah, I kind of ruined the toxic cooking show algorithm with dog videos Yep, I knew it.
Speaker 2Dog videos Yep, I knew it.
Speaker 1So now, now our algorithm is like Andrew Tate wiggly tails narcissism. Here's a cute dog. It's called balance, but I see a cute little puppy I'm just like oh my God, I got to fucking watch it.
Speaker 2It's your one weakness.
Speaker 1So, yes, it is very Andrew Tate. It kind of goes further, where now they're going through the divorce, now she's getting the house, now she's getting the 401k, now she's getting all these different things, whereas the man is now living in an apartment and the man is having to work to provide for child support. And then it kind of goes into this whole thing where the woman is now teaching the kids to hate the man and I I'm seeing your face and I'm loving it because you, I know you're just seeing like andrew tate, all over that oh yeah so, yes, it you know, that extreme is a trillion percent andrew tate, however, a trillion percent Andrew Tate.
Speaker 1However, as a guy, I have been in relationships in the past where I have been used by for money, whether it is because of my stupidity, and so I wish everybody couldindsey's face right now, because there's a you know, and I I've talked to her about this before. I was like no, there. There is a reason why I don't tell you about some of the relationships I've been in until like a year after because you know the shame and judgment so so yeah, some of them are by my own stupidity, but there have been more, more than one.
Speaker 1There's been about three relationships where I did everything you know, right.
Speaker 1I guess, if you want to put it that way, everything from like you know, like, uh, how I met the girl, to building up that slow relationship, one I we've talked about in the past. Like you know, like I am very much a giving person whether that is healthy or not, um, uh, is is within my personality. Yeah, it's not even like just relationship wise, but like if one of my close friends needs help or something like that, I'm more than uh happy to be there.
Speaker 1I'll be there of course and that's the thing is, like, you know, like, uh, unfortunately women do smell that out, and there are some where I can just sit there and say like, yeah, you know, like that was me being totally stupid, but there have been a couple where, you know, it kind of led up to this whole, you know, being taken advantage of yeah here's kind of the thing is that, unfortunately, there are gonna be guys who are not Andrew Tate-ish, who have been used like that, that might look towards that video that I was telling you about, where the woman is taking a lot of money and shit like that.
Speaker 1Because, yeah, unfortunately it is kind of one of these things where we live in a society that doesn't value the work that women do, and then it becomes this whole thing of women having to find money somehow.
Uncovering Gender Pay Gap Realities
Speaker 2I think there are a lot more men than you might expect who would identify to some extent with that video not 100, not even 50 but all it takes is a little bit of being like wait a second, either because they've seen it in real life, like you have just up close and personal, or they just they don't have all of the information. I remember talking with an ex at one point who worked in software engineering, and this man was did not believe that the gender pay gap existed, and I was like you, you can look it up, sweetie, you can go on google. And he was like well, I, I don't see it. And I was like of course you don't see it. You're a man, all of your teammates are men. You don't see it because there's no one there.
Speaker 2I was like talk to some female colleagues, listen to me, your girlfriend who is telling you this is a thing, here's information that's a little bit pulled up. And he was just like I've never seen that. Therefore, it's okay. And so then, if you've got that mindset, I think you're completely blindsided to what we were talking about at the beginning of women are far more likely to be in jobs that pay less than men, whether they're even doing the same work level or not. There's there's that there's a gender pay gap, and then there's the fact that you're more likely, as a woman, to be in a profession that just pays shit. And if you don't see that, then, yeah, you're going to feel hurt when you're like, well, why do I have to do all the work? Why am I having to pay for the house and the this and the that Like this? This is unfair.
Speaker 1And and and that's what I'm saying Like men who who do realize they injure Tate and those people are toxic to begin with. If they run across this video, then that's going to be something. That kind of like person who doesn't look at the wage gap and doesn't look at the fact that your female dominated professions are making a fuck ton less for the same education or the same amount of work as somebody who is a man. Yeah, so it's kind of one of these things where now you have a lot of men who are going to be like well, fuck, you know, like I'm being used as a fucking bank. And that's where a lot of these guys are going to start saying like, yes, of course we need to be making more. You're gonna have a lot of guys who are are saying that you know, we deserve to get more money because we're just seen as a giant bank anyhow. And now it's. It's this vicious cycle of men who are demanding to be paid more because they're being seen as a bank and women who are being paid less because men are demanding this and then needing to use the man as a bank because they're getting paid shit. Yeah, and the whole thing is that okay. So let's kind of look at a little bit at the at the men's side too, is being used as a bank.
Speaker 1We we talked about in the past about men are kind of, are kind of doing.
Speaker 1Is that they they skip these smaller emotions and so like the feeling of rejected, feeling hurt, and these like more closer to a neutral feeling, uh, and going straight to fuck you, I'm pissed. You're now taking somebody who's already unstable because they're not very good with emotions and using the living shit out of that person and so, yeah, you know, now you're going to have somebody who is pissed and I'm not going to say rightfully pissed, but to a degree is rightfully does feel hurt, used and things like that. Because, yes, even though I I see you blowing your eyes because you know, like is it's kind of one of these things where we're thrown into the society that that's been working like this for for years and years and years. Because you got to figure that up until the 1940s it was a single income household and even after World War II a lot of women returned to their home. So it wasn't until the 1960s that women really started going out into the workforce, and so I mean this is a fairly new thing, you know.
Navigating Gender Expectations in Relationships
Speaker 2Yeah, I mean having both parties of a household out working is newer, and I would agree with you that there is still this expectation unfairly so that society puts on both men and women that, like you have, you can still have a single income household. There are a lot of people who still kind of operate off of. They know that you would need to have both parties working, but men still kind of feel this like really big pressure of like. But my dad did this, like my granddad did this. They were able to support their families. I have to support my family and, to be fair, there is some pressure from women too being like.
Speaker 2Well, my mom stayed home. She was a homemaker, like once she had kids until the kids were off at school, and so I want to be able to do that. I mean times have changed. Contrary to what boomers think, things are really different now and that may not be possible in today's world, while it was 40, 60 years ago, and even today, like you know, you still kind of hear those echoes of I could never be with a man who makes less than me.
Speaker 2I have never actually heard that from a woman. What I have heard is and this is directly like people who I know Let me clarify that I saw your face Amongst my circle of people. I have never heard a woman say that now. Then again, uh, none of us are exactly in like high-paying professions, so maybe it's just being realistic. It's like I don't go out and say I would never date a man who's shorter than me, because the likelihood of finding that, while I have before finding that again is, like you know, probably probably not gonna happen. Like I just don't need to specify, but what I have seen firsthand is men get weird about the idea of the woman that they're with making more than them and I was gonna kind of touch on that as well.
Speaker 1So I I've seen videos of women who are who, who do say that.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1I personally have never seen that, like I have dated girls who've made much more than I am, or I have dated girls who make much more money than I do, considering the fact that I am a social worker.
Speaker 2It's not hard.
Speaker 1So so yeah, obviously I've never seen that, and yeah.
Speaker 2I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I am absolutely sure, because I've seen on various Facebook groups and whatever them I'm in some pretty whack ass shit that women will say about dating. Like there was one at one point who she got on one of these groups I'm in for, like women in Paris or whatever and she was very upset by the fact that she had gone on a date and the guy ahead of time told her we're going to split this and the comment section. They had to turn off the comment section because people just like could not contain themselves. I mean, there were people on all sides of the issue, some being like how could he? And others being like sweetie, you're in france.
Speaker 1That's, that's what europeans do sometimes yeah, obviously I I never heard or never had a woman who was like you know, like oh well, you know, I make more than you. So this is one of those things where, like again, like you know, like, if you are an Andrew Tate follower and you're definitely going to see a video like this, yeah.
Speaker 1If you are on on the cusp of being like an Andrew Tate follower, you're definitely gonna see a video like this. If you're not an Andrew Tate follower, you might see it and some of them are gonna believe it. Some guys are gonna be like you know, like yeah, okay, whatever. So I'm not saying that that video is the end, all to be all, but at the same time, there is videos like that that are feeding this idea to a guy who has already been used.
Speaker 2Oh, yeah, 100%. This is like what we talked about with social media, how it can really be used to prey on people. And you have somebody who's in kind of a weird spot already or they just don't know and they're watching and maybe they kind of have started to feel like, oh women, women just want a lot of stuff, women, like, are expensive. And then this video pops up in your feed and it just it serves to confirm that's like yeah, that's what I thought, yeah, and now I've seen this video and so now I really think it, even though I still don't have any factual proof that says this is what's happening.
Speaker 1Right.
Speaker 2But now I'm just that much deeper into it and the algorithm's like oh hey, you watch this video all the way through. Would you like six more?
Speaker 1Luckily, like I say this, luckily, luckily I have a job where I don't get paycheck shit and where a good amount of women are going to make more money than I do. That has never been a factor so like, because what I've noticed is that if a girl is making a lot of money, they're looking for the guy who is nice. They are looking for the guy who is and I've said this before like, um, you know, the past few relationships that I have or past few dates that have turned out decent, meaning that there was either, you know, some kind of communication afterwards or or, like you know, it wasn't just kind of like, oh, like, yeah, yeah, you know, have been in professions where they've made more money because they're not looking for a guy to support them. They're not looking for, you know, uh, somebody who is just tolerable.
Speaker 1You know, they're looking for somebody who is actually decent to them yeah and and the thing is, like you know, like uh and it's funny because like I actually got this twice from the girl that I went out on a date with is that you do so much for the community and you get paid jack shit, like you know, like, so, so their interest is more on the idea of the fact that of how giving I am to the community as opposed to how giving I am to them.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1I will definitely. You know, like, and that's why, when you were rolling your eyes, like, yeah, I will 100% call bullshit on that video, will 100% call bullshit on that video. But, like I said, it's you know the, the guy who is making a lot of money, the guy who is the architect, the guy who they're gonna, just like you said, no, they're gonna. They're not gonna look at the, the pay gap, they're not gonna look at the fact that women jobs are shitty pay. They're just gonna look at, like well, so many jobs are shitty pay. They're just going to look at it like well, so many women just fucking use me. And you know, like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2Yeah, I don't know, it's at the time of us recording this. It's been on social media for like a week or so. Some chick got on Tik TOK or whatever and recorded herself being like I'm looking for a guy in finance, six figures, blonde, hair, blue, no, sorry, blonde. Yeah, blonde hair, blue eyes. It's been a long day, have you? Have you heard this video?
Speaker 1I might have either.
Speaker 2There's one other people have started mixing it, making fun of her like oh, yes, yes, where they do the techno songs and things like yes this is that, and I think that all it takes is for one video like that, too, to go viral of her being stupid and having unrealistic expectations about what she wants in life, and that also feeds into men being like see, all women want is money yeah because look, here's this one and she's literally saying to me like I want a guy in finance who makes six figures and a six foot five with blonde hair and blue eyes.
Speaker 2These are clearly like the most important things. You know that you, you could want just like all of that. So money, tall, blonde hair and blue eyes.
Speaker 1It's you know, and that's the thing, is that like, if you, if you look the internet hard enough, you're gonna find any?
Speaker 1anything, anything so you know you are. You know, if you're already, you're already on the brink of believing that women only want money and you do see a video that validates that, then you know well, fuck, you know, we're nothing but a bank. Yeah, Also, at the same time, I will say this, and this is something that you're going to hate me for, but, as I was kind of saying before, like you know, women do, will you know, use men for for money uh and, like I said, there there are.
Speaker 1There are many times I've made questionable to say loosely questionable decisions on women that I've dated. But there's also been times where I've done everything the proper way and still end up getting used and, all in all, like, yeah, you know, it's not healthy and it's actually kind of toxic for women to stuff on the toxic for women to use and exploit another, another human being I mean, yeah, I would agree with you on that, that you don't.
Speaker 2You shouldn't. It bothers me when I see women talking about oh yeah, I go out to the bar without my wallet because some man will pay for my drinks. I literally don't even bring money. I know that I'm going to go out and everything is going to be paid for. That personally makes me really uncomfortable. That you're assuming that and that you know what's going to happen and that you were taking advantage of this, instead of saying like, hey, I do actually have a job and I could afford. You know, because if I wanted to, if I wanted to go out and do that, could I Debatable? But theoretically, yes, I don't, which is why I'm not going out every weekend. I don't make that type of cash. I don't have that much money. You've got to live within your means. And certainly again, within my friend group there is a lot of feelings against that type of woman that's like don't do that, because you make the rest of us look bad. It doesn't take like with Andrew Tate.
Speaker 1There's always the one or two who stand out and get used as the example and it makes everyone else look bad. It's like it's not the majority but in the end it doesn't really matter because they are the very loud and proud minority. One other video that really kind of rubbed me the wrong way and for a split second I was kind of going into that mind frame of see Fucking women. But you know, like I said, I mean again, it was a split second but at the same time I'm also aware of all those other things where, after that half a second of being like fucking all women, that other part of my brain was like um, dude, you really can't say that. And then I was like, yeah, you know you're, you're fucking social worker who's making jack shit just like every other woman, but that's right, you know your place but there was.
Speaker 1There was a video that I saw and I I actually had to look it up just to make sure that was true. But it was a new york, new york city woman who was going to college. She just moved here and started off college and she made a profile on you know, dating websites and that's how she ate for the year.
Speaker 2So I mean, on the one hand I'm not going to lie my first thought is like that's a queen right there. Look at it, she figured this out. You's a queen right there. Look at it, she figured this out, you know props to her. But also it's immediately followed by like an intense amount of shame that I would feel if I did that, and I'm feeling on her behalf because clearly she didn't. You don't do that.
Speaker 1Yeah, and, like I said, I mean you know again. And, and like I said, I mean you know again, just as you said, like you know, like, for there was that split second where you're like damn, she fucking, uh, she found the the best life hack play the game, yeah and then there's another half that's like, yeah, that that's fucking wrong.
Speaker 1Just to fucking, you know, use somebody like that. So, yeah, my, my mind went into the opposite, uh. But I mean again, you know, like you have a guy who is either andrew tate loving or on the cusp of andrew tate loving or is you know, who has been used at one point and is just saying like, you know, like see, there we go all fucking women when it's just money yeah so you know, that is kind of again.
Speaker 2You know, now we're living in the society of you have that was set up, basically set up to make women fail, but at the same time now you have women who are trying to make that step forward, which the people who make up the rules are still, still men yeah, and I think in an effort to punish the women, everyone's getting punished, yeah, Because an effort to keep the women from the women women in general you know from moving up and getting those higher position jobs, from getting the higher equal pay, to having access, equal access, to all of that. It's not only hurting women, but it's hurting men too, because it keeps them in this position of like. I have to provide for all of this. But also, holy shit, If, as you've talked about before, like if you want to go out on dates, I mean if you went out on the date every week, that's a lot of money Just gone.
Speaker 1And so you know, this is kind of one of those things where, yeah, the the baby boomers at the top of these uh corporations and who are at the top of these firms and and who are running these businesses, because, yeah, you still have a lot of baby boomers, uh, who are never going to fucking retire and then, even when they die off, the next step you're going to have is the early Gen X who are kind of still in that you know, they're not fully Gen X, but they're not baby boomers, so they're still having those ideologies.
Speaker 2Baby X, yeah, boomer X.
Speaker 1Gen R yeah, yeah, there's nothing cool like X-Lennials or anything like that.
Speaker 2No, no, no, the millennials really lucked out because we have both at the beginning and the end.
Speaker 1It worked really nicely, like the millennials really lucked out because we have both at the beginning and the end, like it worked really nicely. So, yeah, you know, and that's kind of the thing is that. So you now have this society of men who are making up these rules, who are completely hurting the next generation of men and who have been hurting women, you know know, since women entered the workforce as a whole. So this brings up, uh, the lovely question of what do we do about it?
Speaker 2yes, our new in segment that you thought of. I'm so glad you remembered.
Speaker 1I remembered at the beginning and I was like I have to do this and then I forgot so, yeah, we, we, we both made a decision that we want to be able to kind of figure out, like if there is a possible solution for things, and so I mean, so let me ask you, like, what do you feel like?
Gender Pay Gap and Workplace Support
Speaker 2On the surface. I would say the most obvious answer would be education, making men aware that these differences exist. Unfortunately, I think we already have that. I mean see my case about the ex. Previously it was like this information does exist, like you can really easily look up on Google gender pay gap. You can look up which professions are more male dominated or female dominated. That information is already out there and free and easy to access, and people are choosing not to, choosing not to. So I don't know what to do about that part, because that would be to me that would be the starting spot is to just go out there, go educate yourself a little bit.
Speaker 2See that this is here, understand, maybe historically, why this was the case. You're allowed to be upset about it and I think this is key. The men's are allowed to be upset that they feel like they're being used. It feels like they have to, you know, work these really long hours, that they all this burden is on them, like. I don't want to diminish those feelings, because feelings are important, as we know, but right now those feelings are being misdirected to women in general, when I think they need to be redirected towards the actual source of the problem, which is boomers like it always fucking boomers boomers.
Speaker 2My parents are boomers, sorry to them, so mine's home, yeah but yeah, I think that would. That would theoretically be a good start. What about you?
Speaker 1I think that I think that women have to take a very, very aggressive approach to this. That so when, when I worked in state of pennsylvania as a social worker, working at the state hospital, I was making 44 a year, which, again, but you know, one of the things was is that you know, you hear a lot of women who are saying like we don't want to go on strike because, I mean, we got to think of our patients. We don't want to go on strike because we got to think of our students, and it's like, okay, you know what? Yes, I understand.
Speaker 1You know like obviously you got into the profession of teaching or social work because you do feel a lot and you, there is a lot that you want to give to the other, you know to the next generation, or or you know to the person that you're helping, but at the same time, you also have to think of yourself. You know, when it comes to this, that you hear on the news all the time like, especially, like anytime that there's any type of gun violence. You hear half the people that are like no, no, no, no, don't ban guns. What we need is we need more social workers.
Speaker 2no, no, no, no don't ban guns.
Speaker 1What we need is we need more social workers. Uh, and you know, there's a reason why there's not a lot of social workers to begin with. And if you were to kind of even take out that, that whole like small population and just being like, okay, you know what we're, you we're going on strike or whatever and giving the public realization that, yeah, fuck, because the thing is that, as a social worker, I've heard so many times we need more people like you and it's like, okay, well, pay me more. And is like you know, like okay, well, you know, pay me more. And well, unfortunately, like is is going to be social workers, teachers and things like that that you unionize because, I mean, you think about it, even with men, that was how men were able to get higher paying jobs.
Speaker 2But then why shouldn't? Why are you putting all the onus on women? Why should it not be, in this case, men and women working?
Speaker 1together. I was I was just about to go there One of the, or the reason why I'm kind of saying that women need to be able to stand up and be able to start fighting for higher wages and everything, is that you also got to remember on the men's aspect of everything.
Speaker 2The problem isn't so much that women are getting paid less so for on the men's side, it is more the idea that we're just a giant fucking piggy bank yeah, I mean, I can kind of see that, because I know that there are, unfortunately, a lot of women who use men like that and who view them, especially in dating, as, yeah, I go out and the man pays for everything and like, why would I even bring my wallet, why would I be expected to exist out there?
Speaker 2Unfortunately, but in terms of at work, what I would like to see is that men also help women get to that point where they can say, oh yeah, you know, I do understand that this is a problem.
Speaker 2I do, you know, I have the data in front of me to prove that you and I are doing the same job and we have the same approximate background and experience and whatever, but you're making 10,000 more a year than I am.
Speaker 2It's really uncomfortable for women to have to constantly be taking that step and constantly having to go out and put themselves in an awkward position, potentially with their male coworkers, and so I'd like for the men to kind of make it obvious that they're open to that, maybe take some steps to show that's like hey, I know that there's a gender wage gap, we've acknowledged it, okay, and now are you going to also maybe make it clear to me that's like we can talk about salary and that you're not going to judge me for that. I don't expect you, I don't need you to hold my hand as I go, talk to the ceo and be like I want to make more money. That's not what I want at all. I think what women in general would want at all. It would just be nice to have the men's support, you know so okay.
Speaker 1So let me ask you before I say anything what do you mean by men's support? Like, okay, so you're, you're not saying for men to you know, uh, hold hands and go up to ceo, like how, how would you see men as being supportive?
Gender Respect in Financial Conversations
Speaker 2um, acknowledging the gender pay gap, because there are, as we've talked about, plenty of men who just think it doesn't exist because they don't see it. If you know that it exists, maybe make it pretty clear in conversations that you're aware of this, that you think about. If you have women in your life, talk to them about it, see their side of things. Within the workplace, I think it would be good to talk to female colleagues and say, okay, you know, we're coming up on that time of year when people are getting promotions, people are getting this. We're all in this together. We all want to make more money, right, like? I'm not trying to, you know, steal your money and you're not trying to steal my money.
Speaker 2This is an open, friendly environment. You and I are colleagues. Let me put this out there to help you, I don't need you to go talk to the CEO about it. I don't need you to make TikToks about it. If you want to, you can certainly and this is by you, I mean men in general. It's more so maybe giving women the tools to go do it themselves and not putting 100% of the onus on me as the woman to. I have to come talk to you. I have to go talk to Bob, I have to go talk to Jim, I have to go talk to each of you kind of individually to be like hey, so I make this much, how much money do you make?
Speaker 1do you make? You know, and and that's kind of one of the the weird things is that you know corporations, america, like, really have done a good job. Uh, because I mean it's ever, ever since, like you know, like as as far back as I remember, you shouldn't ask another person how much you make it's this huge taboo that you don't talk about and that's something that, just in general, I think we need to be a little chiller about.
Speaker 2Like that should not be your opening. Like hi, what's your name, how much money do you make? But especially within the workplace, within the same workplace if we work at the same company, both sides could do well to just be a little more upfront about that type of thing.
Speaker 1Curiosity. How is it over in Europe, I mean, are people more open to talk about their wages?
Speaker 2I think it depends on the country. I know in Russia people were like real fucking chill about just straight up asking you that type of thing and we were told about that before we went there. That money is just a much more open topic and it's much more freely discussed and I definitely saw that even being there as a student. It was really common for them to. They were just curious and so you'd have people ask like oh, what do your parents do? Blah, blah, blah. How much money do they make?
Speaker 2It was not seen as an intrusive thing here in France it's much closer to the US, but I think people are a little more likely to talk about it, probably because the amount of money that you're making here the salaries are way lower than the us um, just because of like taxes and other things that you get a lot of stuff with your salary.
Speaker 2Um, that is not pure money but it's just like stuff kind of tacked on. So when you add all that together, if you got the monetary um amount of that, I guess you would probably be making close to a US wage. But here it's just like less money comes in with the paycheck but you get restaurant vouchers, you get vacation vouchers, you get weeks of paid time off, you get tons of maternity and paternity leave. You get culture vouchers. You get half of your public transportation paid for, transportation paid for. You get health care. You get all of that type of stuff. Um, but people are a little bit more open here about just kind of like oh, but like how much money is that? Like about how much are you making?
Speaker 1so let me ask you like okay, as far as men who are feeling that they are being seen as, uh, giant piggy banks, what do you think should be done with that? As far as and from a a female's perspective, what women should do about that yeah uh, don't, don't do that rule of
Speaker 2two from camp. Don't be a douche, plain and simple, like it's just wrong. You wouldn't want somebody to treat you like that, so don't go out there and treat other people like that. We've talked about this before, that I've said in dating that I think, yeah, every first date I've been on, the man has paid. Every guy that I've dated has made more than me, which is not really hard to do. I do work freelance, but I'm also not pushing to go on really fancy dates. I don't push for presents. I don't push to like you know you'd buy me things or to take me places or anything like that, um, because I don't think that that's fair for me to ask that of you if I couldn't pay for it for myself. That's my personal philosophy, and anyone who doesn't think that way is wrong Facts.
Speaker 1Wow, I have to say I agree with you a thousand percent. Yeah, don't be a douche. Women don't want to be seen as nothing more than a sexual object. Men don't want to be seen as nothing more than just a free ride.
Navigating Gender Expectations in Dating
Speaker 2Yeah, no, man. I think that's fair and I will say, as I say, don't be a douche. You know we've got that For men it's not. How do I put this correctly? Don't view it as a loss. If you're going out there and you're trying to meet the ladies and you match with a woman and you're talking with her and it seems like things are going well and you can see that she's clearly angling for like we should go out for a nice dinner I love lobster. You know what this is not going to work.
Speaker 2I would really urge men to cut their losses ahead of time. If you start to see those signs of like this is somebody who is going to treat me like a wallet and is absolutely going to use this as an opportunity to have some fun, make the most of it, get a really nice free dinner or drinks or things like that, just leave, just walk away from that, because it's not worth it. If you're already seeing those signs like that early on or the first date, it's not going to get better. That's where you just very politely say hey, you know, it was nice chatting to you, nice getting to know you.
Speaker 2I think we're going different places in life. You don't have to be mean about it. Obviously, again, don't be a douche but instead of sitting there and taking it and then becoming really bitter and being like, oh this woman, you know, we went on like 16 different dates and she wanted to go here and here and here and here and here and then she left, well, but the warning signs were there. You, you should have seen that. That is the one thing I would like to add it's.
Speaker 1Well, I think it's one of those things where, like, I I don't like the word should have, could have, uh, would have, uh, you know, just simply because of the fact that, like, okay, there is a point where you know, as a guy, you should say that, okay, yeah, you know what first date you know, maybe a little fancy or whatever, like, okay, that's your decision. If you want to take her out on that, if you're saying like you know, if you made that kind of money, go for it. If not, no, like just, you know, like a denny's or whatever, like should be fine if she re, you know, like kind of comes back against that, like, oh, my god, you know, like I can't believe you're gonna take me to such a poor ass place yeah, you know then you can, you know, kind of be like okay, well, you know, like, if you're already going there on our, you know, before we go on our first date, you know, like you're not the girl for me, yeah, so, so, yeah, um.
Speaker 1So, for women, uh, don't be a fucking douche. Um, for guys, talk to your partner. Uh, you know, try to figure out, like you know, like you know, be educated, you know, actually listen and actually like talk to you know your partner about what are the things that they're going through, uh, as far as like wage gaps and things like, talk to you know your partner about what are the things that they're going through as far as like wage gaps and things like that. What are they going through? Like you know, as we kind of discussed about women who are trying to be like doctors and lawyers, like you know all the difficulties that they're having trying to get through and see, like you know, how they're being treated and things like that.
Speaker 2And talk to your coworkers as well. Talk if you have sisters, if you have female friends, like talk to all the women in your life about this type of thing.
Speaker 1Yeah. So, on our level of toxicity. Where would you place this? Would you place this as a green potato, a death cap mushroom, where it is 50-50 chance of killing you? Or would you say that this is antifreeze, where it is a delightful last meal?
Speaker 2Well, it's definitely not a green potato. That's pretty fucking obvious. I think I think I'm going to say, because I think I'm going, I think you're going to say antifreeze, and so I'm going to say death cap mushroom, because I think it is a big problem, the issue of money, that a certain professions get paid less simply because they are female dominated. This is actually. It's funny.
Speaker 2You kept bringing up architecture, and I am positive that I have seen in the news recently that architecture is one of those fields that more and more women are moving into and so you've actually seen wages go down as women. Yeah, whatever it was, it was a field that has historically been male dominated. It was. It was a field that has historically been male dominated. Women are moving into it more and more and wages are going down, and this has happened before. I mean, teaching used to be male dominated and at some point switched to women and it's just like, no, we don't care about that anymore because now, now it's women, so it's.
Speaker 2It really affects far more people than we all realize. It affects us all, in fact. But I don't quite think that it's toxic enough to be antifreeze, because I think people are somewhat talking about it. I think that there are certainly many not all, but many women are aware that this is something that we all go through. Men are slowly starting to become aware and I'm seeing stuff online of them posting and saying oh yeah, I've realized that this is a thing and I'm trying to do my part. So I think that we are on the cusp of moving in the right direction. I don't want to say we're moving in the right direction yet, cause like there needs to be, like actual shit that happens, but I think that we have the possibility to move into the right direction and to rectify some of this.
Speaker 1I'm not putting in at any freeze, considering the fact that the antifreezes that we've had have been fucking hardcore like shit yeah I would definitely say that this is a a high death cap yeah I, I, and, and for actually all the same exact reasons. I think the reason why I am kind of leveling up is because I'm also thinking won't somebody think of the men?
Speaker 2the men think for the men already but I, I, I, definitely I.
Speaker 1I would add that little bit of degree because I do think that, just as I was saying before, you know, you have somebody who does not know emotions all the way through and you're using them. They're going to feel hurt, they're going to feel used, they're gonna feel rejected, they're gonna, you know, turn around and it's again. It becomes that circle. Now, now, now, they're feeling bitter, now they're feeling like all these other. Some of them are valid, some of them are a little bit too extreme, but again, you, you know, I, I. That's the only reason why I would put on the death cap plus.
Speaker 2Okay, I'm going to stick with my death cap, but I support your death cap plus.
Speaker 1Thank you so much for listening. Tell us what you think. Where would you place this on and on our lovely scale of toxicity and what are your thoughts? How do you think that we could go around and actually fix this problem?
Speaker 2We'd love to know.
Speaker 1Yeah, we'd definitely love to know, so feel free to comment on on our pages, or you can always write to us at toxic, at awesome life skillscom, and until then, we'll see you next week. Thank you so much for listening. Have a good day. Bye, thank you.
