Toxic Cooking Show
Misogyny, $800 first dates, simps, and high-value women: Social media has been busy cooking up and feeding us an addictive but toxic slurry of trends over the past few years. Here at The Toxic Cooking Show we're two friends dedicated to breaking down these trends, terms, and taunts into their simplest ingredients to understand where they came from and how they affect our lives. Join us each week as we ponder and discuss charged topics like personal responsibility and "not all men" before placing them on our magical Scale O' ToxicityAny comments or topics you want to hear about write to us at toxic@awesomelifeskills.com
Toxic Cooking Show
The Cost of Connection: Unpacking 'Gold Digger' Culture
Gold diggers have become a hot topic online with self-proclaimed alpha males spreading panic about women supposedly out to bleed men dry of their money, but the truth is more complex than the stereotype.
• Historical context showing "gold digger" term originated in the 1920s during women's economic transition
• Exploring how economic inequality continues to shape dating expectations in different cultures
• First date spending pressures create impossible situations where men feel obligated yet suspicious
• Age-gap relationships blur the line between mutual understanding and gold digging behavior
• The destructive impact of assuming all women are after money creates toxic dating environments
• High-maintenance appearance can signal expensive taste but shouldn't automatically label someone
• Communication is essential before jumping to conclusions about someone's financial expectations
• True gold diggers who manipulate emotionally vulnerable people rank as "death cap mushroom" toxic
• Most people would be fine with simple, inexpensive first dates focused on genuine connection
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Hi and welcome to the Toxic Cooking Show, where we break down toxic people into their simplest ingredients. I'm your host for this week, lindsay McLean, and with me is my fantastic co-host.
Speaker 2:Christopher Patchett, LCSW.
Speaker 1:This week's topic is all over the internet at the moment and I'm sure you have run into it both online and in the real world Good old gold diggers.
Speaker 1:I did not know that this was a re-emerged topic online yeah, yeah, right now it's getting a lot of traction because there are all of these wannabe alpha guys sitting there podcasting not like us, of course talking about how I don't want no gold digger females. They're gonna bleed you dry. Take everything you own, babes. Do you even have a savings account and a job? Let's start with that first, and then we can, you know, then we can think about gold diggers. But yeah, there's, and we'll talk about this. There seems to be this like kind of panic going around right now that you know successful men women are going to come and take everything. These women are gold diggers. You must avoid them.
Speaker 2:I'm interested to see where this goes.
Speaker 1:First, we have to start off with, obviously, an explanation of what is a gold digger, and a gold digger is somebody who dates or marries for money and not for love. It can go both ways anyway. Whatever in gender, it is not specifically gendered. Now, when you say gold digger, let's be honest a woman pops into your mind no, that didn't happen for me okay, pinocchio, I see your nose like even from here, I'm surprised that you're not able to itch the tip of my nose from where you're at I'm waiting.
Speaker 1:It's crossing the atlantic. Give another couple seconds, it'll be like I'll hear like a tap on my window and look in, there it'll be. But yeah, in pop culture, like, or in current culture, we, when we say gold digger, we almost always mean a woman and kind of true that form, the word or the name gold digger dates back to the early 1900s and the first quote unquote Gold Digger was Peggy Hopkins Joyce. She was a former showgirl who married and then divorced millionaires yes, that is plural, and this was during the early 1920s and this is when you first kind of start to see this appear of when women did this. They got this name gold digger.
Speaker 1:And I do think it's important to note the time because we have previously talked about how in previous generations it's been very important for women to kind of quote unquote marry up. You want to make sure that the man that you're marrying has money, because that's what you were very dependent on. And that's not to say that women haven't worked. They have always worked, but it was historically quite important that your man had a job and money, because once you got married you tended to get pregnant pretty quickly and then once you have kids you're at home until you have enough kids that have a big enough age range that the oldest can take care of the youngest, and or you've, you know, you're past your childbearing years and then you might reenter the workforce, but you have this big chunk of time where you are making, as a woman, little to no money like actual money. You're doing work, you're doing housework, but no money comes in, and we're seeing in the kind of late 1800s to early 1900s, all of a sudden there are far more women working outside of the home.
Speaker 1:There was this big kind of rush around that time of women who started getting factory jobs. There was this big kind of rush around that time of women who started getting factory jobs, who started working as maids or other things. And, yes, a lot of that was still kind of the before you got married versus after you'd had all of your kids. But more and more there were women who were just like I got to work and so women were going out there and women were doing jobs, which means women were earning money. They were maybe not as reliant on men for things. However, it's no longer the 1920s, even though sometimes it feels like it politically, god no. In today's Western society. We have all sorts of fantastic things like contraception, the ability to get divorced and have someone pay you child support, infant formula, outside childcare. Now it will cost you both arms, a leg and half your nose, but we do have that. We're sort of kind of thinking about equal pay for equal work. We're getting there Maybe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Look, efforts have been made. You know some countries have made better efforts and more efforts than other countries, but things do look better than they did, say, 30, 40 years ago. Okay, I'll agree.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's say 30, 40 years ago. Okay, I'll agree.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's. You know it's all relative in there it's like, yeah, could we have done more and better? Yes, have we still done something Also? Yes, so we have a lot of protections now for women so that they're not so forced to be dependent on men. That doesn't mean it's always easy, and you actually specifically talked about this in your episode.
Speaker 1:I think it was unpacking the financial strain on women in the workforce. About how women tend to be in jobs or jobs that have a lot of women tend to be lower paid. It's not that women are seeking out lower paid jobs, it's just that as women gravitate towards certain fields, the pay tends to go down in them. Yeah, this inequality where men tend to make more money, men tend to be better off financially than women. So even where I am here in France, if I was working a normal job, not being a freelancer, if I got pregnant, I get six months of maternity leave that is paid and I am required to have my job when I come back. Even with that, there are still penalties that are going to hit you when you have children as a woman, as anybody who has children, but when you take time off more or less, and that does put you behind in terms of moving forward for promotions and other things, so you just make less money in general, like on the whole.
Speaker 1:But I do think it is interesting to kind of come back to our main point of gold diggers that in countries and Europe is a great example of this where there is a lot more like gender parity, like there's a far smaller difference in pay in terms of, you know, access to stuff.
Speaker 1:I'm thinking of countries like, you know, the nordic countries, sweden's great example. So countries like sweden have fantastic benefits to both women and men when a family chooses to have kids. You see a big difference between a country like, again, the Nordics, or a country like Italy or Greece, where there's a far bigger pay gap and expectation, and those countries are far more likely to assume that the man pays for everything, the man is in charge of that, and so it kind of makes sense, right. And so it kind of makes sense right, like if you are coming from a country that has, like, that big gap, you're going to assume that the man takes care of everything, versus you're coming from a country that doesn't have that big gap. So it's more like ah, you also make good, like I make good money and you make good money, so why does?
Speaker 2:only one of us have to splash out. Yeah, yeah, I can. I can see that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, half the splash out. Yeah, yeah, I can. I can see that, yeah. So let me ask you then, since the the us is kind of like a weird mixture in there and that you know the we have a bigger pay gap than certainly some european countries, but perhaps not as big as other, you know, southern european countries I'm using europe as an example because I think it's unfair to compare us to other parts of the world, necessarily, but have you ever felt pressure to spend a lot on the first date?
Speaker 1:yes how were you made to feel pressure to spend a lot of money? Like, were you specifically told, were women like judgmental um?
Speaker 2:I think. I think a lot of it comes down to well, okay. So I mean basically like okay, so go now on a date. Usually, like the first date's gonna be something like uh, like a restaurant or a bar or you know, like a restaurant getting some drinks and everything like that. You're not going to sit there and be like, hey, you can have whatever you want, just as long as it's under like 20 bucks, yeah, so, so she orders something and, uh, she gets. Okay, she gets something to eat is up to like 25 hours, whatever, okay, uh. And then conversation's going good, you're having a good time, and now, like you know, she's ordering drinks. Hey, could you not get the the? You know this, just stick with beer. You know, like uh so.
Speaker 1:So I mean, do we need the fancy cocktail?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah so. So it's basically like you have two options. You can either sit there and accept the you know like 200 bill, or you say, like you know like, hey, you know, excuse me, can you just get the beer instead of you know like. And as a guy like, okay, as a guy like, maybe I could do that, but at the same time, like if a guy were to say that to you, how would you kind of take that?
Speaker 1:Yeah it's and I understand this. Yeah it's and I understand this. I think we'll probably get into this later kind of the shame that goes into it, and like the feeling like you can't say no if somebody's going for stuff, because it is weird, like if you're standing there and you're ordering and if somebody, anybody, the guy I'm on a date with, even a friend, if I'm just out with a friend and they made a comment about like oh wow, that's expensive, or like maybe don't order that one, it's a lot, I'd be like excuse you, yeah, you kind of lose either way.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Now, have you ever like, suggested a place or a date or something, and the woman said no and then followed it up by being like no, but let's go here. You know, suggested someplace really nice. Has that ever happened?
Speaker 1:not that I can think of that, no, I, I haven't gotten that okay, I was just kind of curious if that, because I know that I have heard online, seen stuff where people have said you know, I suggested that we go for coffee and she was like, oh, coffee for a first date, how dare you? Personally, I haven't seen that. Then again, we've also established that, like all of my friends have morals and ethics, and so none of us are running around being like oh yeah, cocktails and lobster. And so none of us are running around being like oh yeah, cocktails and lobster. You know everyone lives within their means within my friend circle, but that is obviously not the case for everyone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's, you know. And again this kind of comes down to like there's no way in hell that I would ever suggest, like Mickey D's as a first uh date coffee. I might suggest coffee as a start point and see how things go. Or, you know, I might do the, the you know let's, let's grab, uh you know, some coffee and see how things go. Yeah, but then again, you know, like, if things are going good, then yeah, then it might yeah but you know, at least you know that, uh, let's start with coffee and see how that goes.
Speaker 2:If things are going down pretty shitty, you know pretty quick, then you can. You know that's the time where you can be like yeah, it's um 7, 30 is getting kind of late here. I got to go. Yeah, I got to go pick up my daughter from a doggy daycare.
Speaker 1:I eat my house.
Speaker 1:Yeah, unfortunately, your experience, I think, seems to be more common than I would like to think it is.
Speaker 1:I always want to believe the best in people and yeah, I just see it over and over again that there are a lot of women who do just go out and assume that's like, oh, I can, I can not, maybe not necessarily have whatever I want, but there's this kind of like, oh, but you know, you're paying for it and so we're having a nice time and, yeah, I'll order a second drink or something, I think, without always thinking about the consequences that that has for the other person where, when it's you, you may start to like mentally, you're keeping count, like if I go out with friends, you know, and people keep ordering drinks, at a certain point, you know, I may look at that and I'm like we have hit the budget.
Speaker 1:I'm out for the night because I don't want to spend more, you know, but if somebody else was paying, I don't think you always do that and that's where we kind of like start slipping into gold digger territory, I think. And when you start getting into that whole like I'm just going out and you know, yeah, it's okay if you order a second cocktail, but your cocktails are like 15 euros. It's a lot of money. And now you've got two people, you're paying for both of them and you keep drinking them and you go through them so fast. You sure you don't want a glass of wine, really?
Speaker 2:I'm aware that sounds very French.
Speaker 1:You're like, oh, a glass of wine. But these are the type of people who definitely are using this and that is ultimate gold digger. I think you were the one I don't know if you brought it up here or if this was just like a conversation. We had the girl in New York City who what was it? She ate out every day of the year for free by going on dates. Yep, gold digger, a hundred percent, like, how dare you?
Speaker 2:you know, but but kind of I remember we, it was on an episode and and you know, this is where it becomes kind of a problem is I know that you kind of said like you know, like that's, that's sick and disgusting, but at the same time there's a part of me that's like you get that girl like there's also part of me when I see somebody pull off like a crazy bank heist, it's like fuck yeah, it's that same little bit of my brain that's triggered.
Speaker 1:That's like I don't have the confidence to do that or stupidity in some cases, but you know you can look at the other person and be like that's one way to do it.
Speaker 2:You know what? Okay, I'll give you that because I think to like Luigi.
Speaker 1:Exactly that's what I was thinking. You look at that and you're like, oh, oh God, but also Damn, okay, see it's, it's that same, that same little part of your brain, I mean it's. It's still a problem, though, obviously, and somebody who is a gold digger is a problem, because then what happens is that this when stories like that come out, it puts everybody in a bad light, like all women get put under this umbrella of like oh, I saw this story about a girl who was just like eating her way around New York city, and so now you know, if you're dating in New York city, you may be looking at it. You're like shit, did I go on a date with her? Like, have I ever matched with her? Like, are there other women who are going to see this? And be like, ooh, that's a good idea, and it just builds up this huge amount of mistrust because you've seen it and now it's there in your head and so you're constantly watching for anyone to maybe start to show those signs.
Speaker 1:And, like we talked about at the beginning, there's this really big push right now in the alpha bro world of hating on gold diggers, on gold diggers and any woman who seems to potentially be maybe sort of looking for money is a gold digger. You know you go out to eat and she orders a drink. That's a gold digger which is kind of in contrast to me, to the whole like alpha thing of like I'm a big bad protector who has tons of money where my bitch is that, but not you, because you're here for my money. But why are no women flocking to me to hang out on my yacht and spray champagne and dance and skimpy bikinis? But how dare you expect me to pay for our dates? This is a flip flop. Like I'm surprised you haven't run into this.
Speaker 2:What, as far as like online, like yeah, I mean so, like things that I have seen is where you are seeing girls who are if he doesn't spend eight hundred dollars on the first date, there's not gonna be a second date. Yeah, it's like eight hundred dollars, like fuck, like I want eight hundred dollars you know, like I, I you know, I think the most I've ever paid for a first date was two hundred dollars oh my god yeah, yeah, and even that I'm doing it wrong.
Speaker 1:I think the most anybody ever paid for a first date with me was like 50. Was like 50.
Speaker 2:Dang it and that was kind of that whole thing is that we had like a really good time. We were having good conversations, everything like that. And then and she's ordering drinks, but the drinks that she's ordering are like they weren't like the outrageous drinks. But the drinks that she's ordering are like you know they weren't like the outrageous drinks. But drinks are expensive, you know like. You know a cocktail, yeah it's. You know 15, 16 bucks. You know she's not getting the top shelf.
Speaker 1:You know $50 shot of tequila but you know still $15, you know know times that by two is going to add up pretty quickly yeah, and of course the extra thing with the cocktails is that it's not like a beer that you can slowly nurse, it's you go through them fast?
Speaker 2:yeah. So at the end of the ninth, uh, you know we made out and then, you know, I walked her up to her door and then I went home really liked her. She said that she really liked me and then she ghosted me. So from my perspective it's $200 to get ghosted.
Speaker 1:Yeah, ew.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:No, that's a shitty thing to do. I again, we've already established the algorithm feeds us very, very different things, but I have, in delving into everyone's beloved manosphere, I've definitely run across these dudes who are very upset about like women just want me for my money. Women are only here for my money. Now again, what money they have has not been established, and a lot of these dudes are kind of buying into it. There are one or two at the top who do have money, and so that's a real thing. But then it trickles down, and so you have guys who are repeating this because they've seen it online.
Speaker 1:But, like I said before, do you even have a job? Do you have a savings account? Are you putting aside money for retirement? You haven't even gotten there. So you have these guys who they're nowhere near any of these things. They don't have a house, they don't have a car, but they're already worried about the woman coming, marrying them, having their kids and then taking half of everything that they own. It's like we haven't even been on a date yet, sir, Like you haven't even gotten to that point, Like, do you know anything about me? But you're already focused on like you're going to come in and take half of everything I own.
Speaker 2:So I have seen, like you know, like the clips of the, the, the podcast of you know the guy who's like you know, uh, girls don't deserve any of my money, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and I hear it from uh sickens me to say this guy's name people like Andrew Tate. But the thing is, is that the way that you come across and everything like that, that's all you really are showing that you have to offer? Yeah, so you know, of course, if that is what you're advertising as what you have to offer, don't be surprised if that is what she's looking for from you.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and it can be mutually beneficial, and I think that that kind of gets rolled into oh, she's a gold digger, but you have some of these that it's like no, I think everybody's on the same page about what's going on here, everybody who's involved in it. You know, you have these older guys who looks no Money, yes, and you'll see them with like a really hot young woman. I mean, there's the case of um jordan hudson and bill belichick. Bella, is that how you pronounce his name? I don't know. He's, he's some football. Is he the owner?
Speaker 2:or like, uh, some football something oh, is this one that I I jealous, like super jealous of her. Okay, maybe not.
Speaker 1:No, I don't think so. So she's 24. He's 73. And people were, you know, all up in arms, kind of semi-rightly so, about this relationship. And people like, oh my God, you know, she's only there for his money and it's like he probably knows that, like you look at that type of thing, it's like I think at that point we're probably both on the same page about what's going on.
Speaker 2:So this is the thing I will say, and so, like I don't know that person that you're talking about, but the first thing that comes to mind is Anna Nicole Smith.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Same exact thing. She was, you know, in her 20s and he was fucking in his 80s. You could, yeah, probably not the greatest looking guys. You knew what she was there for, yeah, looking guys. Uh, you knew you knew what she was there for, yeah, but the thing is is that I will say that assuming that you're on the same page is different than knowing you're on the same page and I would agree with that.
Speaker 1:That. You know, we have no way of knowing what these people are doing their personal lives. It may be like we had a discussion about this and everyone knows full damn well, like why I'm here and why you're here. Or it may just be kind of assumed, and yeah, when it's assumed it's like, well, surely you can see, yeah, but have we actually said that? Because then you fall into that deception category and that's where things get really gross, like when you start lying to people and being like, oh please, you know. You know, I've just really enjoyed talking to you, it's been really nice, would love to see you again, knowing that you don't actually want to see this person, knowing you have, you know, no interest in, and actually like seeing them a second time. It's like you're just there for the free mail or you're just there to get your electricity bill paid, even though you're five months pregnant.
Speaker 2:Like I worked that one day.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Oh God.
Speaker 1:I saw the perfect opening to squeeze that little story in that you told me about. I was like mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:opening to squeeze that little story in that you told me about and I was like so, yeah, we, we demonize these women for going for that.
Speaker 1:And again, we don't know if it's a you're lying and telling this man that he's the love of your life when secretly you're just waiting from the keel over dead so you can have his money. Wrong Gold digger, get out of here. If you guys understand what everyone gets out of this and that has been spoken about I think that that makes you not a gold digger necessarily, because you've made it clear that you're not trying to, you know, get a hold of this person's money. In a weird way, it's just like, yeah, I'm enjoying, I'm enjoying you, you're enjoying me. We're all on the same page.
Speaker 2:And so, like you know, especially like Anna Nicole Smith, like after dude died, there was that whole court battle, you know, with his kids and things like that, and she was coming out and you know, begging and pleading to the courts that you know, this was purely love, this was so you know. Again, I mean, could have been. Maybe maybe he was the sweetest talker on the face of the planet. If that was the case, I, he, should have wrote a book so other guys would be able to realize what it is exactly, what to say that women would be like oh my God, that is the sweetest, most loveliest thing I've ever heard.
Speaker 2:I personally don't believe that she, she was there for the love. I would hope that he realized what she was there for. But again, like, unless that is actually like, hey, I'm here for money, I don't love you, I don't want anything, I'll, you know, even if I'll give it up to you, you can have your fun and I can have my funds, but that's as far as we're going to go. Cool, both parties agree to that. Good, you know, more power to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, we don't know. There are certainly signs. In a lot of these cases it's like, ah, maybe not, maybe we didn't actually talk about this and maybe people thought other things, who knows? But this does have an effect on regular people. When you see celebrities do this, I think it has a big and a negative effect on you know, you and me who are out there trying to live our lives and dating. Because you see that this is a quote unquote normal thing. It's like, oh well, celebrities do it and somehow there, it's okay when the old, rich dude gets the hot young woman, we celebrate him for that. So it's okay there. And there are certainly circles of women who celebrate the woman who does that and it's like, yes, queen, get yours.
Speaker 1:But it leaves the normal people in a really weird lurch Because then it puts all this pressure, I think, on men to not be stingy on the first dates. It's like, oh, you need to. You know, spend money so you get the women, you keep her attention, all of that, like show that you're worthwhile. And then when that doesn't, when nothing happens from that, then there's a lot of frustration and then that can very quickly when you know you're already feeling frustrated that you've gone on dates and it hasn't gone anywhere. And you run into one of these you know and it hasn't gone anywhere. And you run into one of these you know tater tots on TikTok or Instagram who's preaching about the evils of the gold digger. And you see news like this where it's like oh yeah, you know, she's definitely, she's definitely here for the money. Now is there something else we don't know, but the money is a reason. I think that's where you get these guys who are like really angry at women and just like, well, I'm not gonna, I'm not going to do anything.
Speaker 1:I'm pretty sure I've told the story on this podcast before, but it is worth repeating. I had a friend who met a guy online. They were talking about going out on a date and he basically made it clear to her. It was just like oh yeah, like you know, I don't spend a lot of money on the first day, I'm not going to do this or that. And she was like yeah, it's fine. I suggested we go for coffee or a walk. He's like I just want to make sure. You went to Gold Digger and I had already suggested coffee or a walk. You could have chosen the free option, but you're so obsessed with, like, avoiding the gold digger that now I don't want to meet you.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like when you're, when you're so focused on like I, you know, I've got, I've got to avoid the gold diggers. The gold diggers are out there and they are out there. There are these women and potentially men who are simply existing to like, hoover up as much of your money as they can. But if you go into every potential date or every meeting being like what are you spending money on? Did you buy the cheapest option? Did you buy the second cheek of this option? Like what's going on here? Oh, you ordered the, the this versus the that, that's, you know, two dollars more gold digger.
Speaker 2:Then you're never gonna get anywhere you know, I, I think and and oh, I, I hate that we're getting or I'm gonna get, uh political onto this, but I I think that that part of it is. We're seeing all the time, and you know, as, as men, we're seeing that a lot of these Christian nationalists who are, you know, very, very stern on you know, like not working that they want to be the trad wife type thing and they're really putting it out there and, unfortunately, in the past five months, for, let's just say, some reason, they've been coming out in in herds really pushing this agenda of how the woman's place is in the home, and you're hearing this from women, just as much as you know the the fucking tater tots yeah, and that too.
Speaker 1:It just enforces the idea of like, oh, women don't have any money, women don't do anything. You have to, you know, spend all this money to do this, and it it also tells women that's like. This is an a potentially an okay thing to do. Men are supposed to take care of you. Men are supposed to pay for these things. A real man would pay for all of this stuff in some cultures. Yes, you know, I'm not gonna argue.
Speaker 1:If I were to go to russia, or if I were russian living there, there's a much higher likelihood that I would be making a lower salary than many men, by a bigger difference than you know here in france or in the us. I use russia as an example because I've lived there before it. You acknowledge that this is expected. You, as the man, are probably going to have a lot more money than I am. So okay, but yeah, it's a weird. I hate it. From every direction people are being told this, but then, as soon as they do it, it's like, oh, but you're wrong. You expected the man to take care of you, and then he did take care of you, and somehow that makes you a needy bitch. It's set up to fail. This is what I have discovered is that this whole song and dance is just like it's rigged so that women cannot win. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't. The whole point is you, as the woman, cannot win.
Speaker 2:You know it's funny when you're talking about like Varsha, and I remember when I was dating a Varsha woman and made many, many trips over there, one of the beautiful things was that at the time it was like 84 rubles to a dollar.
Speaker 2:So it was like I remember, um, I was able to take this one girl out on like I remember I was able to take this one girl out on. Like you know, it was the Sky Bar in Moscow and I mean it's a very, like you know, luxury type restaurant, slash bar. We were able to have like drinks, appetizers, dinner and dessert and it cost me for both of us 86 bucks, nice and and spent the entire night there like having drinks and everything like that, had fancy food and it would cost me half as much as that one date that I went on that we went to the local bar and and chain restaurant, local bar and and chain restaurant. So and then it is. It makes me laugh because I think of like this one thing that a comedian once said that I need a girl who wants me for my money and is really, really bad at math yeah, there are benefits, as I'm sure you've seen, to dating somebody from a culture where you've got a fantastic exchange rate I need to start doing that.
Speaker 1:You could just come over, see, there you go. Problem solved, problem solved. So where do you see us going from here with gold? What do you see? The future of fighting?
Speaker 2:gold diggers.
Speaker 2:I think in the U?
Speaker 2:S is going to be more, more and more of a battle, just because, like I said, you know, if, if you, if you just saw it from andrew tate, then you could just disregard it.
Speaker 2:But when you're hearing it from tater tot and you know you're hearing it from from women themselves, who reinforces it, then you hear it from not stereotype kentucky bob who, uh, you know, got played because you know she wanted to go for burger king instead of mcdonald's, and and you know, like, yeah, you know you're hearing this from all over uh, it gets down to the point where, if you're seeing more of how women are just using men for money and then also there are women who do that and chances are just just as easy as it is for women to find men who are overly aggressive, it is just as easy for men to find women who are looking for just money.
Speaker 2:And so if you're dating, like you know, two or three women like this yourself, it's very easy to kind of just say all women want, you know, just money, yeah, and unfortunately that that's, I know, we've talked about this before. Like you know, just money, yeah, and unfortunately that's, I know, we've talked about this before, like you know, like the, and we talked about, like how one of us wants to do an episode on all men. You know, I think that this is.
Speaker 1:I'm waiting for the right time to do it.
Speaker 2:I think this is the time, or I think this is the problem. All women type thing is that once we kind of go into that or nothing thinking is then we have to.
Speaker 2:we look at, at, at the people around us and you know, so, like I, I could sit here and say like, well, you know, I I've dated or been with a couple of women who just saw me as like a giant walleye, and you know, that's true I do, unfortunately but you know, if I sit here and say that all women are doing that, I would have to look at you and say, like, well, either I I could sit here and say, well, I know her parents and I know that her parents raised her better than that, or I I would have to sit here and think that, uh, after 15 years of friendship, that she is still waiting for that perfect time to like milk, a lot of money from me.
Speaker 1:So you know I'm playing the long game here.
Speaker 2:I mean, there was a $2 that you borrowed from me that you never paid back for lunch. That one day I think Fucking.
Speaker 1:Lindsay, the worst part is it may have happened. I have no idea. The worst part is it may have happened.
Speaker 2:I have no idea but but yeah, you know that's going to be that whole thing with that or nothing thinking. Is you know, if you start seeing it all over the place and then you start formulating that are nothing thinking, you're going to place that role onto everybody, and then maybe a couple people that you got to know really well, you're gonna say, well, they're the one exception and that's just unhealthy to go into a relationship, just like you said, with the one guy where he's like, but yeah, you know, I, you know, uh, I expect this because I don't want a gold digger. Okay, well, you'll find out if they're a gold digger pretty quickly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it should be pretty obvious you know and and and you know, rather than saying they're looking for the, the, the signs or whatever you know, like no, just you're going to have to play it out. If no, just you're going to have to play it out. If she is asking you to pay for her electricity bill and is lying about being five months pregnant, chances are, yeah, she's a gold digger.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I would agree with you that I think it's. We've got a couple bad years ahead of us as we work through the process of this and people kind of try it and go down this road until they realize that they're sitting at the dead end and that they have to do something different. I think that there are a couple things that people could do that I would love to see us doing. For instance, on women's side, all of my friends, all of them who I have talked to, like any of my female friends, have all told me was that we're okay with having cheap dates. Like there is nobody within my friend circle who is like ew coffee. You know, the whole point of a date is that you get to know somebody, you chat and if that's where it ends and you had a fantastic time, cool, then we'll have another date.
Speaker 1:But I think that we are really bad about expressing that to you know, just in general, to be like, yes, this is okay.
Speaker 1:General, to be like, yes, this is okay. You know, we're not all expecting you to drop 50 euros or $50 every time you go out on a date. You know, kind of as the minimum. I think there are a lot of women who are perfectly fine with you know you go to whatever free thing your city is doing that day. You go to a museum that's free that day, or you know something like that that is very low cost. I think we need to do a better job of being upfront and just kind of in general talking about like this is an okay date, so that men don't feel shame about suggesting that and that there's not as like oh, if I say like we should go for coffee, she's gonna be like this man ain't got no money. It's like wow, this is a normal thing, you know. And then once we kind of like bring that down, I think that that will help on the men's side the men's side the men's side, I'm gonna be mean for a second.
Speaker 1:Okay, I have watched men in my life, people who are my friends, people I just kind of knew, sit there and be like I don't want a gold digger, as they are actively trying to get with the woman whose entire body screams I love money. I just you know, look, I grew up in a household where my mom almost never wore makeup. I wear makeup like three times a year. I did not grow up with TV or teen magazines. I still recognize when a woman is wearing makeup, when she's had her hair done, when her nails are done. That is something that can be learned for people to recognize.
Speaker 1:And if you are the type of man who says I love that stuff, I am here for it, I want it, I know what it entails, fantastic, go for it. If you were the type of man who says that's not me, I am not interested in that, and so I can tell by looking at you that there's a very, very, very high likelihood that your upkeep is expensive. And if your upkeep is expensive, you are probably going to assume that I'm going to take some of that. That is probably not the person for you If you go ahead and you see that can probably assume that, like, maybe this is not the person for me and that maybe maybe we should have this discussion early about what are our expectations in a relationship.
Speaker 2:Go on so I I'm gonna chime in on that one here. I'm I'm sure you've seen the video where the girl is putting on makeup and she's, you know, showing what products she's using and then puts like a little bit and then there's the price, and then you know, like the dress that she got for the first date, you know. Then she puts the grand total. This is why I expect you know like, you know like so much from you know from a guy, because my first date cost me $500.
Speaker 2:And somebody stepped in I was the guy who broke everything down. Okay, you know, you got this for this much, you use this much of it, so that's, you know, bringing it down from $90 to 53 cents. You know like, and by the end of the, the, the, you know, a thing is like the, the outfit that you got for the first date you're going to be able to wear that you know, multiple times and you know you really don't have to go out that far. So the cost of your, from your aspect, is as good as a mcdonald's, cheaper cheeseburger, french fries and large coke so I have a problem with that breakdown.
Speaker 1:I mean, I I agree that you can't be like, oh well, I bought this foundation. The foundation was 30, therefore you have to spend 30. Like, you can use that foundation so many times. But breaking it down like that and being like, oh, you're only worth that's, that's a. That's a gross comparison on both sides. To be like, well, I spent this much to look like this. I'm talking about more in general, that you can look at people and make some educated guesses about what are their expectations.
Speaker 2:Well. So I don't think that that that video was saying that you're worth a cheeseburger, and I think it was just him kind of putting a flip on him, because she was saying that I put this much money into my makeup, which came up to 500. Therefore, you, you pay 500 for a day, and he was kind of saying both gross in it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, I think he was kind of saying I think they're both gross in it. Yeah, I think he was just basically saying if you want to go by that logic, you should. You know, this is what you actually pay for. So we can go out for, like a cheeseburger, large fries and large Coke.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's something about it still sits weird with me. I don't like her version either. To be clear, like again, you can't just like run around and be like, oh, I bought these shoes and I may wear them every day, but like, because I wore them today, I'm worth this much. That's not how it works. That's not how dating works. That's not how we like price stuff.
Speaker 1:Again, I'm talking about like general appearances. You can get a vibe from somebody Like I can look at men, you know if we're going to flip it and you look at it, it's like you, you live an expensive life, you like really nice things. Okay, that's fine. That is personally not something that I'm really interested in. I don't necessarily want the dude who's running around like flaunting his riches interested in. I don't necessarily want the dude who's running around like flaunting his riches, so I'm not going to go for that type of guy. I'm talking about men who are, you know, sitting here and telling me actively, telling me I don't want a gold digger, and then going for the woman who has a much higher likelihood of being a gold digger. Do you see what I mean?
Speaker 2:it's. And again, this is where I kind of break off from you is that you know, like, unless they are doing something outlandishly obvious, like showing up in a porsche, you know, okay, you, you can see what the the expectations are and things like that girl who likes to wear a lot of makeup. You know, okay, she likes to wear a lot of makeup. You know, okay, she likes to wear a lot of makeup.
Speaker 1:There's different styles. This is the problem with men is that there's a lot of makeup for the female gaze and there's a lot of makeup for the male gaze and there's all sorts of in-betweens, and when you get to a lot of makeup for the male gaze, she's got something that she's looking for more often than not. She's got something that she's looking for more often than not.
Speaker 2:It's your wallet, it's. But but the solely kind of put things just based on looks. I think that again you're kind of hitting down a dangerous path now, because night and I, and again this is kind of going down that path of, well, look what she was wearing, she was asking for it.
Speaker 1:And that's why I said this is kind of going down that path of, well, look what she was wearing, she was asking for it and that's why I said this is that that is just a sign to you that maybe you need to have a conversation sooner rather than later about whatever expectations from a relationship that's not a like oh, I see you're wearing a lot of makeup. Therefore you're a gold digger. Therefore you're going to steal off my money. Therefore, fuck you, because that's that's wrong. When you make an assumption, finish the sentence with me.
Speaker 2:You make an ass out of you and me yeah, but you know, and that's that's kind of what I'm saying is that okay, you know, you shouldn't assume at all, like you know you shouldn't say that just because of what she's wearing, that a guy should expect that she's going to be a gold digger, okay, you know, if she likes to, you know, wear this. Certain we can kind of loosely uh assume, but again, that if, if you do feel that, hey, you know, she seems or she looks like the type of person that that's, um, you know, going just for the money, that's when you make that, that conversation just as well's, when you make that conversation Just as well as having that conversation where, if, based on what a girl's wearing, you can absolutely positively cannot assume that she just wants it, and that's the thing it's like having that discussion. Do you enjoy having sex? Are you fine with having sex on the first date? Do you want to have sex with me? Okay, again, that's the conversation that has to be done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's what I'm saying, for this is that this is not an immediate turnoff.
Speaker 1:I think men need to do a better job of kind of watching for the signs up front to instead of letting it get so far. Because if you see this girl, you're talking with her, you know things seem to be going really well, you're getting these. They're not red flags, but they're beige flags. You're just like, hmm, okay, it's something to keep in the back of your mind, to keep in the back of your mind so that if she then suggests, oh, I know this, like really fancy cocktail place, maybe now's a really good time to have that discussion, just to make sure, because, who knows, maybe she's going to come out and be like, oh no, oh no, sweetie, I'm paying for you, I'm CEO of my company, like it's my treat, and you can be like okay, cool, I'm glad we had this discussion. It's just about paying attention to these things, so that you don't end up you know three dates in and you're like how did I, how did I get here? Because you didn't pay attention to the information around you.
Speaker 2:I'm still going with the. This is discussion that has to be talked about yeah, it's a discussion. It should always be a discussion but but yeah, I think that if you're, if you're you know, even with, like, the science, okay you know. If if she says about the, the fancy cocktail, and you know as a guy that there's no way in how that you can afford this, or that this is going out of your budget, you know and you say that you say oh no, this is like as on my budget I.
Speaker 2:and if she does say, like you know, like, uh, well, I'm looking for a guy with, you know, more money than that there, that Now you have that conversation.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:I think we're saying the same thing just in different ways. So from what I'm hearing from you is that I'm hearing hold that assumption in the back of your head, then have the conversation. I'm saying don't assume period, but still have that conversation. I'm saying don't assume period, but still have that conversation.
Speaker 1:I'm saying that the conversation is going to happen one way or another. I think if you were getting signs that maybe point towards this could be an issue, and if this is something that is very important to you, the conversation needs to happen sooner. I also live in a place where I have never paid for a first date, but France is kind of iffy on that in terms of like, it would not be strange if I was single and I went out on a date and the guy assumed that we were going to split it. It's a little bit of a different mindset here. Anyway, I'm sure we'll pick at this one later.
Speaker 1:On our scale of toxicity, where would you rate gold diggers and gold diggers being women who are intentionally just seeking out, or not just women, a person who is seeking out another person not romantically, not because they care about them, but literally just for the money? Would you say that they are a green potato? You can just peel off the green part, you'll be fine to eat it. Are they a death cap mushroom 50 50 chance of death? Or are they a delicious but deadly last snack when mixed with lime jello antifreeze?
Speaker 2:I would say that this is like a dead center, uh, death cap, uh, I think that if this is something that is discussed like and is agreed upon by both parties, that fine. You know, like, if this is, you know, how you want to define your really or define a relationship, I, I, I don't think that, um, anybody can say yes or no to that, but but again, I think that a lot of times, and then that the gold digger is not as obvious as you know, like, hey, this, you know, like I expect blah, blah, blah. I think the gold digger is, you know, especially nowadays, is becoming more of the five month pregnant girl of you know like, hey, you know like shit's really going down and my life is going to shit and I just need two hundred dollars to pay off my electricity, so that way. But I really want to be with you and you know, like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and you know, you know, I, I said no to that and, um, you know, and and this is where I was kind of saying to you, is that, even with that that saying no, she kept on talking to me.
Speaker 2:And you know, like really trying and we've talked about this before we're really trying to draw the guy in, and especially a guy with a lot of empathy, and trying to find that one thing where, hey, oh, your, your dad died of cancer. My dad's going through cancer right now and he was a vietnam veteran and the va is not paying for his medication, and and again, you know, once they kind of find that that one thing, that yeah, just like twist the knife in.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Is really twisting the knife in. That's where it can be deadly, because they are not happy with just that $100 that you gave them to quote-unquote pay for. The medication is then oh, and I need this, and I need this, and I need this. Oh, you're fucking broke, fuck you, I'm out. And that's where need this? Oh, you're fucking broke, fuck you, I'm out. And that's where you know, like now you're leaving this guy in the dirt. Thankfully I haven't gone down this road. Of all, women are blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 1:Thankfully I have too many people in my life that, as small as they may be, Bite your ankles.
Speaker 2:I I've had a lot of positive women in my life that I you know. Again I, I can't do that whole thing. Of all women are like this, except for this person, except for this person's, except for my sister, except for lindsey, uh, but everybody else in the world, you know, like no I would agree with you that this is this is a great death cap.
Speaker 1:Uh, because it can be bad. I think there are a lot of kind of low level gold diggers out there, like like this type of person who's just kind of running around on the internet chatting to people trying to see what she can get, and that that is a problem that there are these people. It is a problem that there are women or men who go out on dates just for the food, for the drinks, whatever, knowing that they have no interest in the person, knowing that they're not even really trying to, but it's just like oh, yeah, you know, it's, it's fun. I have heard people say that before. Oh's just like, oh, yeah, it's fun. I have heard people say that before. Oh, I just went on a date because it's fun.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, if you're just having fun, do you want to pay for your half of it? On the other hand, I think that a lot of what we call gold diggers are not necessarily gold diggers because, as you said, if everyone's on the same page about this, I don't think that's a problem. If we've had a discussion and I'm here for your money, and you know that I'm here for your money and I know that you know and we have specifically discussed that. I'm mildly judging you guys. But okay, you can have that Like I'm not mad about it, can have that like I'm not mad about it, and I don't think that that is a problem when everyone is, everyone is in agreement and I think that there's probably a lot more of that than we're aware of where people do know, like, why you're here and are okay with that, and then, just looking in from the outside, people like, oh my god, she's a gold digger, she's just there for his money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he knows, that's why he has her there. So, yeah, a solid death cap. If you have ever had experience with a gold digger or being a gold digger, if you want to out yourself, you can write to us at toxic at awesome life skills dot com. You can also find us on Facebook, instagram and blue sky, and we will see you guys next week. Bye.
Speaker 2:Bye, thank you.
