Why do female-dominated fields often require advanced degrees yet offer starting salaries comparable to jobs needing less formal education? In this episode, we promise to uncover the deep-rooted gender disparities in career salaries by examining the educational requirements and initial pay scales of male-dominated and female-dominated professions. From construction workers and plumbers to social workers and teachers, we'll discuss the societal expectations and financial challenges young professionals face in these fields.
We'll also walk you through the arduous journey of becoming a licensed social worker, detailing the 3,000 hours of work and 150 hours of supervision needed for an LCSW. Plus, we’ll explore the continuous education, specialized training costs, and the role social media plays in maintaining a professional image. By the end of this episode, you'll have a comprehensive understanding of the financial and societal hurdles in these careers, making it clear just how demanding and undervalued certain professions can be.
Why do female-dominated fields often require advanced degrees yet offer starting salaries comparable to jobs needing less formal education? In this episode, we promise to uncover the deep-rooted gender disparities in career salaries by examining the educational requirements and initial pay scales of male-dominated and female-dominated professions. From construction workers and plumbers to social workers and teachers, we'll discuss the societal expectations and financial challenges young professionals face in these fields.
We'll also walk you through the arduous journey of becoming a licensed social worker, detailing the 3,000 hours of work and 150 hours of supervision needed for an LCSW. Plus, we’ll explore the continuous education, specialized training costs, and the role social media plays in maintaining a professional image. By the end of this episode, you'll have a comprehensive understanding of the financial and societal hurdles in these careers, making it clear just how demanding and undervalued certain professions can be.
Speaker 1:
Hi and welcome to the Toxic Cooking Show, where we break down toxic people to their simplest ingredients. I'm your host, christopher Patchett LCSW, and here with me is my co-host.
Speaker 2:
Lindsay McLean. I'm excited for today's topic.
Speaker 1:
Well, it's going to be an emotional rollercoaster for you. It's going to start off you loving me, then hating me, then loving me, then hating me, and then wondering where the fuck you're at with me I'm down for that and the majority of our demographic is women, so it's gonna be the same thing. Where I can, I can just picture like a bunch of people like typing away like angry letters and then being like no, he has a point, no, fuck him. Nope, nope, nope, fuck. Should I send this or not? I don't fucking know.
Speaker 2:
So the answer is, if you're thinking about it, yes, go ahead and send the hate mail.
Speaker 1:
So today we are going to talk about money, Money, money, money money.
Speaker 2:
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:
To start off, I think that one of the first well, where does money come from?
Speaker 2:
From a tree From my parents.
Speaker 1:
Well, if you lived in my house, you would know more than anything that money doesn't grow on trees. So yeah, we have to work for money which is great Shocked to hear that Not a problem, no problem working for money.
Speaker 1:
However, there is a big kind of big problem here, kind of starting off with men versus women. We have male-dominated jobs, we have female-dominated jobs. Let's kind of look at some of the male-dominated jobs. You have construction workers, you have plumbers, you have architectures. So, construction workers, you don't have to have much of an education outside of high school. Some don't even require that.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it's more training on the, on the job, I would guess more training on the job.
Speaker 1:
And then, yes, obviously, like you know, the more work experience that you have, the more valuable that you're going to become oh yeah but you know, even looking at beginning is going to be, you're going to get paid.
Speaker 1:
you know 36, 37 a year. It's not going to be the greatest, you're not going to make the greatest living off of that, but for somebody who's 18, 19, 20, it's actually pretty fucking good. And then as you move up the ladder, becoming foreman and things like that, your pay is going to increase. Then you kind of look at things like plumber and things like that where, yes, you're going to increase. Then you kind of look at things like Plummer and things like that where, yes, you're going to have to have some kind of tech school training, either an associate's degree or VoTech or something like that where extra schooling outside of high school. Looking it up, plummer is going to make about $30 an hour, which comes up to about sixty thousand dollars a year.
Speaker 2:
that's start okay, okay, I went into the wrong profession, uh well, oh god I can hear the social worker and you cry.
Speaker 1:
So then you go into architects and things like that, where, yes, you're going to need to know math, you're going to need to know, have a bachelor's degree.
Speaker 1:
And so starting pay is going to be about eighty thousand dollars. Yeah, you have these types of jobs. These are male dominated jobs. Now, kind of looking at the other end of it, just as you were saying, like the social worker in me crying uh, so you have professions, like you know, like a social worker, you have teachers, who are going to start off at around 35 to 45 000, which is about the equivalent of construction worker yeah, except you need to have at least what like a master's.
Speaker 1:
So for social workers, you need to have a master's. Surprisingly enough, like even having your bachelor's in social work, social worker is considered to be a protected profession. A protected profession is something that, like a doctor, you can't go up to somebody and say I'm a doctor unless you actually have your medical degree. Or you can't say you're a medical doctor unless you have your medical degree. You can't say that you're a social worker unless you have your master's in social work. So even somebody who's a bachelor's in social work, they would have to say I have my bachelor's in social work, but they couldn't say I'm a social worker.
Speaker 2:
Okay.
Speaker 1:
So social work requires you to have a master's degree to do basically most of anything. And then you have teachers, which each state is independent, but most of them are going to say something along the lines of you can have your bachelor's to start teaching, but within a 10-year span you have to have your master's degree. Okay, you know what? In all honesty, I would agree with both social workers and teaching that you know. This is definitely something that, first off you are, you are helping other people in life skills. You are also going to be directing people into better education or better way of life. Life is not exactly something where you can be 22 years old and be like I know all about life. I'm going to be a fucking Instagram influencer. Hmm.
Speaker 2:
I have a great memory of being in fifth grade and my teacher that year must have just graduated. She was young. I remember my mom's comment being like you could, I could have had you as my child. Like you're that young and she was very nice, but babes was on the struggle bus. 10 year old me could tell that she was not quite prepared to deal with us and it's.
Speaker 1:
It's definitely funny, like I, I know like, uh, there's been a couple times where, working with other social workers who just graduated and they're at the age of like 24, and people are like you're gonna direct me in life, like you're still probably living with your mom, like fair point. But so both of these professions say they're, they're requiring for a master's degree at some point. Even better is that both of these degrees are requiring for further education even after.
Speaker 2:
So for me, but still with that pay that you mentioned before.
Speaker 1:
We're definitely going to be getting into that here. So okay, so now, $35,000 to $45,000 is not looking so good.
Speaker 2:
No, no, it's not.
Speaker 1:
You know, you figure that somebody is now in about $100,000 of college debt and making just as much as a man who is in zero debt. So one of the arguments I always hear about is well, construction workers, like you know, like you're putting your life on the line and therefore, like you know, like you deserve that, you know like and it's like okay, yeah, you know you're like I don't think anyone's saying that the construction workers should make less money.
Speaker 2:
I think it's like people get confused when, like, the teachers need to make more money. It's like, yeah, we're not saying everyone else needs to have it taken from them.
Speaker 1:
So you know, and here's the thing, yeah, construction workers are definitely putting their lives on the line, but the thing is is that I don't exactly see too many like architectures that are putting their lives on the line no, because architects are sitting inside drawing away on their little tablets right that's what they're doing, but also on the flip side of that is that, yeah, you know, like as a social worker, I may not be putting my life on the line, but I am putting that other person's life on the line.
Speaker 1:
So you figure that you know doing therapy, like I have to be aware of what that person is saying. As far as my license goes, and we'll kind of talk about my you know getting the license to begin with, and, and we'll kind of talk about my you know getting the license.
Speaker 1:
uh, to begin with, my license can be taken away if I fuck up in any which way yeah just to kind of give you an idea of like getting a license or a license as a social worker, getting my lsw, which is a licensed social worker. I was able to get that pretty much right after college. Once I finished off college, I had to take a test and I passed my test, got my licensed clinical social or licensed social worker LSW. Okay, In order to get my LCSW, well, I now have to do 3,000 hours of work.
Speaker 2:
So for every 20 hours that I worked.
Speaker 1:
I have to see a supervisor, and for that it's not free. No, that is not free, no, so there are times where maybe you might luck out where you're working for somebody who can supervise you and they'll give that as an extra benefit. But you figure, I mean that comes up to 150 hours.
Speaker 2:
Of supervision.
Speaker 1:
Of supervision that you have to go through. Wow, so that's just in Pennsylvania, because Pennsylvania is, so Pennsylvania is 3000 hours of work that I had to do and 20 hours, so it came up to about 150 hours and I was able to get some of those via working with somebody who was able to supervise me, but I still did have to pay for a majority of the time that I got supervised.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
So now we're talking about $100,000 in college debt. On top of that there's supervision, and then on top of that, every two years I have to get 30 hours of continuous education, which guess what.
Speaker 2:
Is it free?
Speaker 1:
Oh, so close, but no but no as a therapist. Most likely, the thing I'm going to be doing is I'm going to be so as a therapist. Most likely I'm going to go through different types of therapeutic modes. So, whether it is kind of behavioral therapy, whether it is action commitment therapy, whether it is EMDR, but a lot of these types of therapies are going to be very, very, very expensive.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
Something like EMDR, which is eye movement, desensitization and reprocessing. I was lucky when I went through EMDR that I was able to get it through my job and which, if I would have done it independently, it would have been close to $7,000.
Speaker 2:
Oh my God, Just for that one to be able to offer that.
Speaker 1:
Just to be able to be able to offer that. Just to be able to offer that, yes.
Speaker 2:
And I thought translation tools were expensive.
Speaker 1:
So you know, and the same thing with teaching is, even after you do get your master's degree, you still have to go through continuous education. Even after you do get your master's degree, you still have to go through continuous education. So you know, you have this job that is requiring a fuck ton of money just to even be in that profession. Then it is going to be a fuck ton of money to continue being in that profession. And you know, you think about also with social norms, where one of the things I I did go to I originally went to school for education and one of the things that they, one of the things that they said to us was you really have to be careful of what you post on social media.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, so it's not even just the idea of being that stupid person. There was that one girl who lost her job because after the boston bombing, uh, she dressed up as a Halloween costume, as a yeah, um, so you know we're not talking about obvious stupid shit like that. Yeah, we're talking about somebody who is at a friend's house with a beer a beer, not, not, not fucking stripping up on the, on the on the tables or anything. A beer, not, not, not fucking stripping up on the, on the, on the tables or anything, a beer, and you know, the thing is, is that, like parents will look you up? Uh, they want to see, like who you are and everything like that. And if you are just relaxing with a beer, oh my god, and you're teaching my children.
Speaker 2:
Sacrifice. Children can't know alcohol exists.
Speaker 1:
So this is a person's personal Facebook. They're having a beer, they're not doing anything stupid, but yet they can get fired for that. Because if one you know angry mom calls up and starts this whole community of like, but she's sitting there with a beer, like, how do we feel safe with our children, you know, in the classroom when she's there on a saturday night with a beer?
Speaker 1:
horrible and and same thing with with social workers. You know you are part of the community. So whether you are doing therapy, whether you are working in mental health, whether you are working in a as a case manager, you're gonna be looked up yeah so if anybody were to look me up on facebook, I actually have two facebook accounts.
Speaker 1:
I have one with my actual name for anybody who wants to find me and send me friend requests then I'll be able to say, okay, I actually do know this person, and then what I'll do is I'll actually send them a friend request through my personal Facebook.
Speaker 2:
Ah, sneaky.
Speaker 1:
But I mean even my personal Facebook is it's set. All the privacy settings are, you know, locked, solid and even like the main picture, I'll always have something decent.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I mean to be honest, that's probably just standardly good advice. I can think of a couple people I know who would do well to take that advice. Maybe post a little bit less personal information on Facebook for the world to see.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I, I'm pretty sure I know who you're talking about you do, you do. So, yes, yes, everybody listening. Don't be a fucking idiot. Don't post the stupidest things on Facebook and all that type of shit.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, whether you're a teacher or not.
Speaker 1:
Whether you're a teacher or not, check your privacy settings.
Speaker 1:
Looking back at the construction worker, looking back at the plumber, looking back at the architect. You have all these things of they don't have to worry about. You know, as long as they're not doing the stupid like you know, like that one girl where I was saying about it earlier, as long as you're not doing something extremely stupid, yeah, you'll be okay. You're gonna be okay. You know you, you can be sitting there. Uh, you can have your main pitcher as you in the club, you know, raising your hand, with the beer in your hand, and nobody's going to bat an eye no, because they're not looking you up there.
Speaker 2:
Right, it's not the thing. You don't look up your plumber on Facebook, but you people do look up the teachers. People do look up the camp counselors like that's yeah, they're going to look you up, but you people do look up the teachers. People do look up the camp counselors Like oh, yeah, that's yeah, they're going to look you up.
Speaker 1:
I and this has actually happened to me a couple of times where I'll say something along the lines of if I'm talking to a client and I say something along the lines of well, you can find me on on here, and they're like oh, I already looked you up, you know. Like I, I know all the places to find you at.
Speaker 1:
I'm like oh okay, I don't know if I would have just admitted it like that you're under a lot of pressure, you're continuing a lot of education you have to have a lot of education to begin with and you're getting paid 35 45 000 dollars it's not looking good it's not looking good at all. Well, okay, so, okay, so, very, very, very simple solution to that all you, you women, have to do is go out there and go to the better paying jobs.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, of course I mean, let me just finish up making the sandwich in the kitchen and then I'll go get that pilot job. Oh, except, you don't actually want me to be a pilot, do you? Because women can't fly planes.
Speaker 1:
And not only that, but like okay. So let's push aside all the stereotypes. To begin with, you have jobs like okay, be a fucking doctor, be a lawyer.
Speaker 2:
No, no problem.
Speaker 1:
Go ahead, shoo, shoo, everything solved.
Speaker 2:
Podcast over, except it's not.
Speaker 1:
We're still here and this is why we are the toxic cooking show. Oh yeah, so I worked with somebody once where they were going into the medical field and the thing is, is that okay? So you're high-paying jobs like doctor lawyers, engineers, architectures and things like that male-dominated jobs, and they're that old boy club oh yeah and so it now becomes this whole thing of like okay you are, you want to be a doctor, cool, cool.
Speaker 1:
just go through eight years of school, another four years of medical school, so that brings you up to 30. As you're doing your internship, guess what a lot of women are doing around the age of 30.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, that's kind of the time that people may be looking to semi, settle down and start having kids.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it's a little hard to do when you're doing an internship in a hospital.
Speaker 1:
So, so, okay, so cool. Like you know, like you're, you're going to be around 30, you know 30, 34, whatever, and that's just for you to, before you even get your like foot all the way in. And you know, now, all of a sudden, you have that little baby bump going on. You're working in a all boys club, which they are absolutely understanding of.
Speaker 1:
Oh, of course of course they are now you are interning at a hospital, trying to do 60, 70 hours as an intern, still getting a little bit of pay, or like your pay is going to be kind of low. Doctors really don't get their pay until they actually complete everything their pay, until they actually, you know, complete everything. So you're working on little pay, comparatively, you know. Uh, because you figure that's, they're in debt about 200 to 300 000 or, yeah, 200 to 300 000 yeah of you know school debt.
Speaker 1:
so, comparatively, you're you're getting, you know, very little uh, money. You have doctors who are telling you that you need to work 70 hours because I did it when I was your age, um, and, and this is just the way that things go, even things like lawyers. You know, lawyers are becoming more women, but you also got to look at the people who are at the top of these firms. So, yeah, you know, like women may have gone into the field of lawyers and it's equaling out a little bit the field of lawyers and it's equaling out a little bit, but the people at the top who are making these rules are going to be your baby boomers, who are, uh, well, I did it this way and you have to do it this way too well yeah, of course, because nothing in the world has changed since you came into this life no exact same so, you know, now you have the, now you have this woman who is making this decision of.
Speaker 1:
You know, can I really do 70 hours plus making 50 000 different medical appointments to make sure that my baby comes out fine. So now we have this. You know this, this whole loop of like things, like you know, like okay, if you want to go into like you know, like being a uh, if you're more focused on like working and having the family and things and everything like that, you're looking at these professions that maybe allow you to do that uh- are going to pay you $35,000 to $45,000.
Speaker 1:
Or you can say fuck, I'm either going to dedicate myself to this job, just have no kids, or I'm just going to have to kill myself getting into it.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, well, you power through it.
Speaker 2:
You have to hope that whoever you're with also has a ball and job.
Speaker 2:
That's the other thing I've seen is that both people in the couple have really nice jobs and so they can afford to say we have home healthcare, we have a nanny, we have all of this so that you know, mom can keep working at the level that she wants to to get where she wants to.
Speaker 2:
But I think that those families are very few and far between all things considered, to be making that much money in the US anyway, to make enough money that you can have one person and the couple continuing through school, continuing to work like at that low wage that they can eventually get more, but also paying for the nanny, the cook, the cleaner, all of that to make up for the fact that no one's home to do it yeah, and then you know, like, I know, like a lot of social workers, they they end up being forced to marry somebody who is in a high paying job because of the fact that need the money 35, you know like, unfortunately, like 35, $45,000 is not a lot of money to live comfortably, especially at the rate of all the education that you had to go through.
Speaker 2:
So okay, basically, jobs for women or shit. Yes, yes, that's what I hear. Okay, basically, jobs for women are shit. Yes, yes, is what I hear Okay. I did not know that before. As a woman, this is all new information to me.
Speaker 1:
I'm already seeing that we are going like 40 minutes into this, and there's a whole other aspect to this.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
Rather than making this like a three hour episode, I'll just kind of end off here and we'll pick back up next week and we'll talk about the other end of it with how women kind of see men.
Speaker 2:
Okay, that works.
Speaker 1:
And we'll also do like the whole new segment that we got going on and we'll also talk to scale of toxicity. Well, yeah, because that has to be at the very end yeah after we've discussed everything so, yeah, if you have any other jobs that you've noticed are like low pain on just because they are more female dominated jobs, let us know by writing us at toxic at awesome life skills dot com.
Speaker 2:
You can also write to us on social media. We'd love to hear you there.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, we have all the social media out there, but we look forward to seeing you all next week and have a great week, bye, bye.