Have you ever caught yourself vying for attention in a way that makes you cringe in hindsight? Well, we've all been there, and this episode, Lindsay McLean, along with Christopher Patchet, are pulling back the curtain on the social labyrinth of the "pick me girl", right from its roots in the playground dynamics of early girlhood. We share our personal blunders and missteps as a springboard to dissect the 'pick me' phenomenon and the pressure to proclaim how we're 'not like other girls'. Meanwhile, Christopher, as a Licensed Clinical Social Worker, adds depth to the conversation, confirming that this struggle for uniqueness isn't just a female venture but a human one.
Through our candid discussion, we peel away at the layers of seeking validation and the traps that come with it, especially as women navigate the treacherous waters of social validation while men wrestle with their own version of this - the 'simp' behavior. We take a hard look at how social media can twist our genuine attempts at self-expression into a desperate sprint for approval and wrap up by holding up a mirror to our own attitudes with a nod to Taylor Swift's lyrics. Get ready to explore the intricate dance of identity, acceptance, and the quest for a uniqueness that sometimes has us teetering on the edge of toxicity. Christopher brings his professional insights into the mix, making this a conversation you won't want to miss.
Have you ever caught yourself vying for attention in a way that makes you cringe in hindsight? Well, we've all been there, and this episode, Lindsay McLean, along with Christopher Patchet, are pulling back the curtain on the social labyrinth of the "pick me girl", right from its roots in the playground dynamics of early girlhood. We share our personal blunders and missteps as a springboard to dissect the 'pick me' phenomenon and the pressure to proclaim how we're 'not like other girls'. Meanwhile, Christopher, as a Licensed Clinical Social Worker, adds depth to the conversation, confirming that this struggle for uniqueness isn't just a female venture but a human one.
Through our candid discussion, we peel away at the layers of seeking validation and the traps that come with it, especially as women navigate the treacherous waters of social validation while men wrestle with their own version of this - the 'simp' behavior. We take a hard look at how social media can twist our genuine attempts at self-expression into a desperate sprint for approval and wrap up by holding up a mirror to our own attitudes with a nod to Taylor Swift's lyrics. Get ready to explore the intricate dance of identity, acceptance, and the quest for a uniqueness that sometimes has us teetering on the edge of toxicity. Christopher brings his professional insights into the mix, making this a conversation you won't want to miss.
Hello and welcome to the Toxic Cooking Show, where we break down toxic people into their simplest ingredients. I'm your host for this week, lindsay McLean, and with me as always.
Christopher D Patchet:Christopher Patchett, LCSW.
Lindsay McClane:So today is an exciting episode because we hinted at this. I hinted at this a couple of weeks back, I don't know how long back it was. Now I can't do math. I should have failed math twice in high school, fun fact. But you were also just mentioning to me recently that you don't know what a pick me is.
Christopher D Patchet:I do not know what a pick me is.
Lindsay McClane:Well, today is your lucky day. You're gonna find out. It's well, I was gonna say it's a good thing. It's not a good thing, but that's what this podcast is all about, isn't it? Is that you know? You hear these terms, you see them, but you may not actually know what they really mean, and that's what we're here for, yay, so before we even get to pick me's, though, we have to kind of talk about everything that leads up to the pick me, because I would call it a scale. You may have heard the term, not like other girls or abbreviated as in log. Have you seen that?
Christopher D Patchet:I know, I haven't even seen either one, you've been living under rock.
Lindsay McClane:Then again, you are the person who didn't know how to pronounce pewdiepie, so I don't know if you're exactly trustworthy here, but it is what it is. When we're talking about women and trends within that women follow are trends that affect us. We've talked about this before that you have this thing with, like fashion and body trends, that there's something that's in and there's something that's out. So, for instance, eyebrows Right now the bigger, fuller eyebrows are in, but we're headed back towards the thin eyebrows, because you hit a point where, like when everyone has something, it's not cool anymore. So you now have to do the opposite. So all the girlies who got like you know the big, fluffy eyebrows. Now that everyone has those, how do you stand out? So you go for the thin ones and everyone's going to like yeah, shave them all down again, don't pluck them. Kids, don't do that.
Lindsay McClane:You will regret that decision because they're just going to go back to fluffy again and like 10, 15 years. So you have the in group and the not in group, and this starts as early as elementary school. That you'll see. For girls that I would say late elementary school, not five and six, but as you're approaching middle school like nine and 10, you will start to see the girls kind of separate themselves as like here are the cool ones and here are the not cool ones, and obviously, like the not cool ones will then kind of form their own groups and you'll have like the ins and outs within that. But there's a really big difference between the popular and the not popular and you're trying to find your place within that. And you're trying to find your place within that, and so if you are not popular, one of the things that you may kind of gravitate towards is being not like the other girls.
Christopher D Patchet:I'm guessing that you're going to be going there, but how? Not like the other girls?
Lindsay McClane:Great question. It can be anything. When we're talking about in-logs like I'm not like the other girls, it can be in any way. Now, a lot of the times it is like oh, I'm not like the other girls, I don't wear makeup, all the other girls wear makeup and I don't. But it can also be even just more mundane things, like all the other girls like to eat here and I don't like that. I'm not like the other girls, I don't care about that, I'm more interested in this thing or that thing. It can be a little more just like general hipster-ish. Like oh, this is really cool band, you wouldn't have heard of them, kind of like that, where it's not toxic, it's stupid but it's not toxic, it's just a way again to find your identity.
Christopher D Patchet:Okay, okay.
Lindsay McClane:I'm assuming that guys don't go through this where you're trying to like who am I? Who am I in relation to other men?
Christopher D Patchet:Oh God, yeah, oh yeah, so I mean just as you're saying, like around middle school age, the jocks versus the metalheads. Going back to my absolute favorite psychologist of all times, eric Erickson, he kind of talks about where that is especially. I think it's 13 through 20. Identity, trying to find your identity and trying to find out who you are, so that that's kind of common within men and women okay, so guys also have a kind of the the popular and the not popular oh god yeah yeah, okay, okay.
Lindsay McClane:So you, you understand this too. That's like where am I and who am I? And so, to a certain extent, being not like the other girls is normal. I think we've all done it Like I know I have. All of my friends I asked like at a certain point were like, yeah, I'm not like the other girls, I'm cool, I read books Like you and, literally like every other woman, shut up, sit down, but you know, you're a teenager. It's normal to a certain extent. One of the interesting things, though, is that women tend to kind of, unfortunately, lean into the hating on women for liking other female things.
Lindsay McClane:I'm going to do my best, ben Shapiro reading WAP impression for you, and I'm going to read you. I'm already looking forward to this. I'm gonna unfortunately, not nearly as good, but this is a Taylor Swift song. You have heard it. You probably just didn't realize you heard it's. You belong to me and it's she wears high heels. I wear she's cheer captain, and I'm on the bleachers, dreaming about the day when you wake up and find that what you're looking for has been here the whole time. I should have done it a little more stilted to really get that wet ass peepered feeling to it, but you can see right there that it's just like oh, she wears high heels. I don't wear high heels because I'm not like the other girl.
Christopher D Patchet:Okay.
Lindsay McClane:So that's not like the other girls. To a certain extent, it's normal that you do it, but it can very quickly kind of veer into that gross category of hating on other women, and it doesn't have to, unfortunately. You really can just keep it as yeah, I'm not like the other girls. I don't wear makeup, I don't like to go out partying, but I like to do this, and here are my friends who do this. I don't, at this point, know anyone who does this, because most people grow out of it. That seems to be the to be the thing. You do it when you're younger, like you said, that 13 to 20 age range you're kind of finding who you are and then you realize that there are actually a lot of other girls who don't wear makeup.
Lindsay McClane:You are not the only one. You are not the only girl wearing Converse. You are not the only girl who likes horses or whatever it is. There are, in fact, many. It is. There are, in fact, many other girls who are like that, like, ah, my friends, so that's not like other girls in logs, like that. It's a pretty big thing, and I'm I debated about doing that as its own, entirely separate, like really looking at it episode, but I think that it is non-toxic enough that we don't have to cover. I would call it a potato that's been left out where it might get some sun on it, like has the potential to turn into a green potato so okay.
Christopher D Patchet:So this is in logs, you're you're talking about in logs. Yeah, not like other girls, okay oh, okay, okay, okay, okay, and somebody's reading skills I'm trying to figure out, like you know, because you kept on saying the end logs, I was like no, is this like a separate thing? And I didn't realize that it was a N or N L O G. Yeah, having to say not like other girls every single time is a bit long, I know I know I definitely.
Lindsay McClane:The first time my sister said that to me I was like the what Iface to pick-me's. Because when you look this up on the internet you're going to see like what's the difference between a pick-me and an inlog? And people are like they're the same thing. And the fact of the matter is there is a Venn diagram of the two and there is a lot of overlap. Actually it wouldn't be quite a Venn diagram, it's a circle inside a circle, but we'll get there. Lot of overlap. Actually it wouldn't be quite a Venn diagram, it's a circle inside a circle, but we'll get there.
Lindsay McClane:So the term pick me in logs I haven't found exactly when that really started to become a thing, but the term pick me dates back to 2016. There was a tweet that was actually mocking girls who called themselves wifey material. But the idea of Pick Me dates back to 2005 from an episode of Grey's Anatomy where one of the characters begs another to choose her over his wife. That's delightful, I know. I know. I can see you're so excited.
Lindsay McClane:So the pick me she's not like other girls, but the difference is she does it for male validation. So all pick me's are in logs, but not all in logs are pick me's, yeah. So you can be an in log. You can be like I'm not like other girls, but you're just doing it because you're like I'm not like them, like I'm cool, I wear my Converse, you can do that, and if it's not for validation, that's fine, you're over there. It's not really toxic. You're being stupid and you will lose friends that way because people pick up on that and it's very uncomfortable to be around that type of person, for obvious reasons, when they're constantly like, yeah, I don't do that, okay, anyway, do guys ever do that to each other?
Christopher D Patchet:Yeah, oh, I, I mean it sounds and you can mention I like it sounds like the hipster mentality. I don't use the camera on my phone because I I use a old-fashioned camera because it has so much you know better quality and you know kind of going into this and it's just like, yeah, shut the fuck up.
Lindsay McClane:Let me just take a picture with my iphone yeah, it's fine, good for you for having your camera that you have to develop the film for does not make you a better person yeah.
Lindsay McClane:So an example of like the inlogged pick me pipeline is you say like oh, I'm not like other girls, I don't wear makeup. Okay, that's, that's fine. When you move into pick me territory is when you start being like oh, because I think it's nicer when women don't wear makeup. Right, like I just take so long to put on, it's so expensive, like I don't understand why these girls are doing it. Like it's so much nicer when you can just like see what somebody actually looks like. Right, because you are seeking male validation okay, yep, now I'm seeing the uh yep, this is the key of.
Lindsay McClane:where it switches from in log to pick me is when it's like I'm looking for you, the guy, to validate and be like that's right. Yeah, we don't like that. Or like I'm so cool, look at me, I'm one of the guys. So the pick me can hang out with the boys. And in fact, she likes to hang out with the boys because there's less drama. Like you guys are so much better. I don't like hang out with women because all they do is just like chat, shit, talk about makeup and hair and clothing and like I can't be bothered with any of that. Like oh, it's so stupid. Right? She's not afraid to say what she thinks because she likes beer and cars and sports, because that's what's interesting, right? Again, who cares about fashion? Who cares about celebrities?
Christopher D Patchet:ew okay, so I'm throwing this out there. Uh-huh, this sounds like the female version of the simp.
Lindsay McClane:Stole it, I'm building up today.
Christopher D Patchet:Shut up. Well, no, it's just that you presented so well that that's how I'm picking things up.
Lindsay McClane:Well, that's all for today's episode.
Christopher D Patchet:See you next week.
Lindsay McClane:Yeah, bye, but yeah, no, it is. This is the female simp and the internet has called it out for that. As I said, there are all those things above. It's the. You know she's not afraid to say what she thinks thinks because you know she she doesn't hide that she wants to eat steak for dinner. She's not going to be like a woman who's you know oh dangly eating her salad. You'll see stuff like I may not know how to apply mascara, but I can fix my motorcycle type things that people are putting out there.
Lindsay McClane:Yeah, that's the female simp, is the pygmy, and I asked you about this when we talked about the simp, like on that episode. I remember I asked you and at the time I also was confused about the difference between inlogs and pygmies. I was just like it's the same thing, right, right, and now we know that it's not. So. Just like the simp though this is not something that you necessarily want to call yourself, like, this is not a nice term, this is not something that somebody walks around, is like yeah, I'm a pick me. You never say that it's something that you get labeled as and that in and of itself, kind of like with simp, is a little bit problematic because you have people who just kind of yeet this word out onto everyone.
Lindsay McClane:Like, as soon as somebody's like I don't like makeup, I use that as an example because that was what I did as a teenager. Like, I was definitely in the like, I'm not like other girls, I don't wear makeup. And then I got to be an adult and I was like right, I don't wear makeup and that's fine. Like, if you want to wear makeup, fantastic, I love this for you. But this is not something that I need to make my entire identity and it's not something I use as like a thing to get guys to be like yeah, I'm so cool, you should take me.
Lindsay McClane:But it's something that, as soon as somebody says something vaguely like that, people kind of have the tendency by people, I mean, other women have the tendency to pile on me, like, oh, you're being a pick me, like you're just trying to get attention. It's like, no, maybe, maybe they are, but maybe they're also just expressing that's like yeah, this is not something I'm interested in. This is something that many people care about, but not me necessarily. So you see it just being thrown around. Part of that, too, was because there was a, and it's still going on. To be honest, this spate of little skits that people were doing on TikTok and Instagram. You may have seen these Maybe this is where you heard the term Like going to school with the pick me, or the pick me girl goes to the gym, the pick me girl at her friend's wedding. Did any of those ring a bell?
Christopher D Patchet:You look vaguely confused.
Lindsay McClane:I should have sent you some of them. You know what. We're going to cut this out of the episode, but I'm going to send you one now and you're going to watch it.
Christopher D Patchet:Wow, demanding You're going to watch it.
Lindsay McClane:Damn straight. Okay, so through the power of editing, are back after just a second. So, yeah, that is an example of like a pick me so okay.
Christopher D Patchet:So just kind of going off that video that you showed me, it definitely seems like the pick me is more the where it is the idea of, oh, my muscles are so small, we're waiting for the guy to be like, no, you're just beautiful, just the way you are and just whatever like type thing. I think that the difference between you know, the men and women as far as like the simp versus the pygmy girl, women as far as like the simp versus the pygmy girl, is that they're looking for validation of being hung out with versus being told so like. The simp guy will do the same things of. I'm not like other men. I'm, you know, not all about sex, I'm a nice guy, you know, like wanting the guy or wanting the girl to just give him attention versus validation. There you go, that's the way Attention versus validation.
Lindsay McClane:Yeah, I think there's that. The other key difference to me is that the pick me looks for this validation by putting down other women. I mean, the whole point is like you know, oh, you know, they're at the gym, they're like I'm going to. You know, I want to work out with you because, like this is fun. I don't want to end up like her, like you don't just say you know, oh I'm, you know, I'm so cool, like I don't care about drama, like other girls. It's you're seeking out and you're pointing out. It's like they do this bad thing I'm, I don't do this bad thing.
Lindsay McClane:And it can even include like naming and like really getting very pointed in your critique of the person, just absolutely tearing them apart to build yourself up in the eyes of other, in the eyes of men. Because, again, that's that's the big difference between the pick me and the in-log is like the in-log is just everything, like I'm cool and different, and the pick me is you were looking for guys attention and you're doing it for their attention. Only it's a gross one because, again, it's not necessarily a pipeline that you start off being an in-log and like you're automatically going to be a pick me and I wouldn't even call it a slippery slope, because that implies that you will fall down it, but I think it can become a slippery slope, like you're at the top of the mountain and it's raining, so you know, I love your metaphor.
Lindsay McClane:Thank you. You do need to be careful because it can become that and, kind of interestingly related to your last episode, social media, I think, plays a really big part in that. So you know, yes, we're making fun of these people on social media, we're making these skits like the one that I sent you and it's funny to watch because, like he, he, he, that's so cringe. But I think it can really play into that. It can make people feel bad. In by making that skit, you were becoming that person and it gives these people a platform to do it from, platform to do it from, and I'm not a fan because you start off. So there are three specific women that actually also the one I just showed you there, riri Bibi, I guess, is how you pronounce her name.
Lindsay McClane:There are three other women who I have seen do this and there's Chase Bird, philippa Bowden and Savannah Sachdev Sachdev I'm not sure how she pronounces it. All of them do fitness stuff and I want to point out they are good at what they do. Philly Bowden is like a marathoner or half marathon, I forget which one she does. This is her job. She runs these things. Savannah Sachdev is known for her running every day. She also does ultra marathons. She does marathons. They are good at fitness and yet all three of them Chase I'm not sure about she does fitness videos, but I don't know if there's anything that she particularly focuses on.
Lindsay McClane:I find all their videos painful to watch because they are all old enough to know better. Again, when you're younger, you're figuring yourself out. You're like yeah, you know, am I like this, am I not? I will spare you having to watch one of these videos right now. But it's very much like look at me, I'm quirky, I'm fun, I'm pronouncing things funny. I'm, you know, running and taking like a selfie and I'm doing a little like face with my tongue out. Aren't I so cool?
Lindsay McClane:oh god and I just all I can think about is watching these is like imagine the poor person who watches you run past you like, oh, I was. Like you know that there's a certain you want to. You want to be yourself. You should be yourself. You shouldn't feel like you have to be like everyone else and everyone else is, you know, super serious all the time. Yeah, go, have fun when you're running.
Lindsay McClane:I'm not I'm not saying you shouldn't do that, but the constant like really fast changes to the videos, like the split second, you know, here's like a half second, a half second, a half second it makes me feel like I'm going to have a seizure and it just adds to the general like cool quirkiness factor. Like I'm so cool, look at me, I'm not like the other girls and we are dangerously close to kind of falling down that hill of like becoming a pick me. And when you make that type of thing normal, I think then we, we lower the bar for everyone. If this is the normal, if this is no longer like, not like other girls, then not like other girls have to go lower and what's lower is pink do you see where I'm going?
Lindsay McClane:yeah, I see where you're going so do men have something like this?
Christopher D Patchet:I'm curious in what respect?
Lindsay McClane:so I mean, you have simps and the pick me is the female version of that, but do you have this type of thing of guys on the internet who are trying to be not like the other guys? Is that a thing like how do you get to to simp land?
Christopher D Patchet:I mean, I definitely think that there there is that. Not like other guys, I think growing up I would, I would have kind of fell into that. Not like other guys. I wouldn't say that I ever fell into the simp category, but I did try doing the whole like you know, like I'm not all about sex, I'm not like other guys, you know, and uh, and that's exactly how I sounded when I was 15 I'm sure, yeah, a little nasally voice.
Lindsay McClane:I mean, this was back in the 1700s so I'm gonna kick your butt.
Christopher D Patchet:Just remember again you are the age. You are older than I was. When I first met you, you were not, no, you were 30. I was 30.
Lindsay McClane:You were 30, shit.
Christopher D Patchet:Yeah, oh, doesn't sound so good now, does it? Oh, you're so old? Oh yeah, I'm not that far behind you, fuck yeah.
Lindsay McClane:I still think the best story about that is when we went to go get tattoos together. Like you were there for my first tattoo and I had to leave because my actual parents were gone and you, you stayed to get more work done on your sleeve and the tattoo artist was like man, I didn't, you didn't tell me you had a daughter.
Christopher D Patchet:Yes, when I was 12 years old, I had a kid.
Lindsay McClane:As you do, it happens, god. So how do you guys get to the simp? Because you don't necessarily have to go from like there's not like a stair, step down, like you must be an inlog to be, then become a pick me like? Theoretically you could just kind of jump into it and automatically be like I'm not like other girls because I only like the boys. But usually there's kind of a downward fall there I, I think, okay.
Christopher D Patchet:So going on, both, you know the the pick me girl and the simp. I think what ends up happening is that a lot of times, because the way that we learn something is we do something and we find out if it works or not. So perfect example is and this is one that I always kind of use with my clients is that I dated a girl when I was 30 years old, and or actually 29, whatever, because it was right before I went back to school, so I was 29. I was dating this girl, this girl, she had a five-year-old. She was ironing out his pants for kindergarten and graduation, which I still can't believe they fucking have that nowadays. Graduation from kindergarten, that's a whole nother podcast, but you know. So she unplugged the iron and she told her son not to touch it. You know it's still hot. And she left the room and guess what he does? So screaming, bloody, murder.
Christopher D Patchet:My ex and I, we go into the other room and of course he touched it and her thing was you touch the iron, didn't you? Yes, are you gonna do that again? No, and that's the thing is like, you know, like we learn by we. We attempt something. If it works. You know that's something that we're gonna do again. If it doesn't work, then we know not to touch the iron again.
Christopher D Patchet:Yeah, so I think a lot of times when you're especially when you're talking about a teenager trying to find your identity, you're trying to find out who you are, and in that time you are experimenting with a hell of a lot of different ways. You just, as you said in log uh with the, you can say the whole name with the, not like other girls. You know that. You know, chances are they they're trying to find something that makes them unique. And then they find something that, uh, maybe at one point somebody said, oh, I noticed you're not wearing makeup like the other girls. And oh, there we go like you know that that's, that's what I'm gonna go with, and then that's kind of something that they stick with.
Christopher D Patchet:Or a guy who is saying I, I'm not all about sex and you know, uh, you know and I'm just trying to imagine baby patches with like little nasally horns and if a girl were to say like, yeah, you know, and that's what I really like about you, that's where you can go into that direction of becoming a pick me girl. Slash, simp is something worked for you. And now you're going to do it again. And now you're going to take it to the next degree, because maybe another guy or girl didn't accept that the way that one person did. And so now you're turning out the volume to try to, you know, get that validation.
Lindsay McClane:Yeah, I can definitely see that where it's like it happened once. So like if I try it again, like at the same thing, will I get that same dopamine kick of like Ooh, I, you know somebody who's like showed interest in me because all attention is good attention. I mean, yeah, and who's like showed interest in me because all attention is good attention.
Christopher D Patchet:I mean, yeah, and that's how we evolved we. We evolved as animals that are based on a community, you know, I mean religion, government, everything like that. We, we need to be in a circle and that's how we evolved.
Lindsay McClane:Yeah, yeah, I mean, mean validation is important. You just have to be careful where you you get it from and so again like teenagers.
Lindsay McClane:I don't mind when I see teenagers online being like I'm not like other girls, I'm like, you do your thing, stupid, like it's fine, you'll grow out of this, you'll be okay and like this, this is normal. When you start getting into your 20s and you're doing that's like when you start getting into your late 20s and you're still like I'm not like other girls. No, no, I need you to stop like. I need you to have found yourself. I need you to be calmer and you can say I'm not like other girls, like I like doing this thing. But take a step back before you do that and really look at yourself. There are a lot of girls in this world making blanket statements like I'm not like other girls because I run marathons.
Christopher D Patchet:Um, I hate to break it to you, but so I'm curious, okay, so kind of go on talking about all these things and how you were kind of saying that slippery slope. When I did the episode on simps, a lot of the videos I saw it was people in their 20s or 30s. The videos I saw it was people in their 20s or 30s. And so with Pikmin Girls, like do you see a lot of teenagers or do you see that that is kind of the, the teenager phase, is the not like other girls? And then it could go into your 20s.
Lindsay McClane:Of the pygmy girl, I would say more the second, and that may be biased, but certainly me personally, the friends who I all asked about this so very scientific study. None of us know someone our age like within our circles who is a pygmy. There are some who are still a little bit on that, like I'm not like other girls thing, but they haven't. They haven't fallen into the I'm not like other girls, for male validation hits being a pick me. It's just. You know, I may be still like seeking validation, but from everyone about how cool and quirky I am. I don't have anyone there. So I would say quirky I am. I don't have anyone there. So I would say well, when I look back I do see people who I knew in high school, in college, like around that time, who'd be like oh yeah, at that point you were a pick me or you were like very heavy in log, like quirky to the max. But it seems that from my perspective, most women outgrow that. Most women realize that there's no need to have that type of competition. There are plenty of other ways we could have competition with each other. Unfortunately, we just move into slightly more sophisticated. But they do exist, obviously, just like simps exist. There are still plenty of women who are in their 30s and 40s who are obsessed with being one of the guys. I'm too cool. I don't like the drama. That's one of the things you'll hear a lot.
Lindsay McClane:Again. You're putting down other women for liking feminine things. That seems to be the big thing too. If you like makeup, if you like getting your hair done, if you like getting your hair done, if you care about fashion, like this is all the type of stuff they'll hate on as if that's a bad thing. Cause you're searching again for that male validation. And I feel like this should be our, our podcast poem, cause it will come up. It came up before, I think, when we were talking about something. It's coming up now. It will come up again and I should have looked this up and I forgot, but it's the poem, that's. Like you know, first they came for the so-and-sos and like I didn't say anything because that wasn't me. Do you know which one I'm talking about?
Christopher D Patchet:Oh God, that first line does sound familiar.
Lindsay McClane:Okay, so sound familiar. Okay, so it is a. It's called first they came and it's a 1946 post-war confessional prose by german lutheran pastor martin neimuller thank you, wikipedia. And it basically gets along the lines of you know, first they came for the socialists. I didn't speak out because I was not socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists. I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the jews and I didn't speak out because I was not socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was a Jew. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak for me.
Lindsay McClane:You see this for a lot of things and it's very true that you know you don't speak up because it's like oh, that's not me, or you, you think that you are now in that group, like, oh, I'm a girl, but I'm pretending, not pretending, but like I'm, I'm cool with the guys, cause I'm not like other girls. I don't care about fashion, I don't care about baking, I don't care about any of these things, like what is mascara? I don't know, I've never used it before. That does not, unfortunately, prevent you from facing all of the violence and harassment that women get. You think that you're putting yourself like in a good spot, like you think you can get in with the guys and like now you're safe because you've got that validation. You are still just as at risk as all the other women.
Christopher D Patchet:It's unfortunate I definitely think that kind of going through my mind of, like different women that I've known, you know, throughout my life. I definitely think that because I I do I do recall a couple times of hearing the pick-me girl yeah, even in their 20s and 30s.
Lindsay McClane:Mm-hmm.
Christopher D Patchet:You know it doesn't become. It's not as much of their main character, Mm-hmm, but it does still kind of linger in there, even in their thirties.
Lindsay McClane:And I'm not surprised that there are people out there like that again, like maybe I've just done a really good job of cutting those people out in, which is yay for me, but I'm not surprised, certainly. I've seen it on social media that these women exist, that they're out there, yeah. So that these women exist, that they're out there, yeah. So, and this leads into what will be not next week's episode, but two weeks episode. Not every pick me is going to be like cool with the bros, like chilling and drinking. Some of them take this and they add a hefty dose of religion to it because that has never gone wrong. Some of them take this and they add a hefty dose of religion to it Cause that has never gone wrong.
Lindsay McClane:Yeah, so look forward to in two weeks we'll be talking about trad wives. You look excited, but before we yeah, I never heard that and I'm now. I'm actually kind of curious, so go for it, don't look it up. Don't look it up because we're going to talk about it I am not going to look, I'm going to talk about don't you dare.
Lindsay McClane:But before we get into that, because that that's for two weeks from now, I'll leave you on a suspenseful cliffhanger. Where would you rate pygmies on our scale of toxicity? Are they green potatoes that make you sick if you eat them, but we all know that you're not supposed to? Are they death cap mushrooms, where 50-50 chance of killing you? Or are they antifreezeze, a delicious but deadly last meal?
Christopher D Patchet:I would say high green potato just because of the fact that it's it's more of an annoyance type thing. But the reason why I do kind of say a higher green potato is because if you are doing it, because you want to feel safe and you're looking for this validation as now being seen as this girl who's not like the others and they're not going to treat me like the others and they're not going to harass me like the others, well, you know, unfortunately, if a guy is like that, he is like that. It's not going to matter whether you are a picnic girl or not. So I kind of say it's high cream potato because of the fact that how you're using it is going to determine on how bad could it be, how bad could it be. But for the most part, it just kind of seems like it's one of these things where, coming from a guy's point of view, I would say it would be annoying if a girl did that.
Lindsay McClane:Yeah, I would mildly disagree with you, but not not too much. So I would say pick me's are a low death cap mushroom. So the inlogs, again, that can be completely non-toxic and even to a certain extent, like, as long as you're, you know, under the age of 20 and you're doing this within reason, that's fine. We all did it Again. We all did it again. We all did it. So no shame to the people who went through that phase. It's when you carry that on, when you continue that, and now you're being immature because you're still doing this thing that we did when we were 13. And now we're in our late 20s, early 30s or even older, that kind of gets really gross to me. And the fact that when you move from in-login to the pick-me category, so not only is it immature, you're also looking at that toxic femininity of putting down other women, because you're not just saying, oh, I'm cool, I'm one of the guys, like look at me, I like to drink beer. You're saying I like to drink beer, unlike the girls and their fruity little cocktails, unlike the girls who want to have wine. They want to sit there like they want you to wine and dine them Like I don't expect that You're putting down other women for existing, because there's no shame in wearing makeup. If you want to wear makeup, you should wear makeup. If you want to wear a lot of makeup, you should wear a lot of makeup. You're allowed to do that and men need to learn At some point.
Lindsay McClane:We're going to do this. I'm going to show you a whole bunch of photos. You have to decide if women are wearing makeup or not, and they're all going to be tricks and you're going to fail and it's going to be hilarious. I'm looking forward to that. But you're allowed to have these things. You're allowed to care about fashion. You're allowed to want to, you know, go on nice dates and go out to dinner. You're allowed to like, want all of these things and pick me's will absolutely put you down for that and tear you down. It's like, oh look, she goes to the gym. She only does cardio. Bitch, I'm going to the gym and doing what I want, and I think that's where it's moving into the death cap mushroom area. It's like you're putting down the other women To pull yourself up. You're pushing them down and I think that can get really nasty.
Christopher D Patchet:Yeah, yeah, I agree with that, okay.
Lindsay McClane:Glad you saw the reason.
Christopher D Patchet:Oh, my God.
Lindsay McClane:It's hard with these old people, you know.
Christopher D Patchet:You're not that far behind.
Lindsay McClane:In 12 years. But you guys should tell us what you think about this. Tell us, if you've ever met an adult, pick me. I'm fascinated. I want to hear the stories if anyone has met them, and if you have a story you can write to us at toxic, at awesomelifeskillscom. We look forward to hearing from you. And until next week, this has been the Toxic Cooking Show.
Christopher D Patchet:Bye, bye.